Where are you this weekend? - 2024/25

[smeagol]

Fall season has already started in my neck of the woods, so time to start a new thread for the new comp year.

My fall season kicks off Saturday - Iowa @ Illinois. College men, Div 2 club side vs what will likely be a D1 B side.

With the law changes, will be interesting.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Nowhere Yet! After fracturing 5th metatarsal jogging on 11th December 23, finally got a pin put in it 5 weeks ago as it never healed. Plaster off next week then fingers crossed a slow return to fitness. Until then I'll be resuming my hopefully temporary assessing/coach/mentor/ whatever they are called career. Enjoy your rugby all.

 

[smeagol]

Fall season has already started in my neck of the woods, so time to start a new thread for the new comp year.

My fall season kicks off Saturday - Iowa @ Illinois. College men, Div 2 club side vs what will likely be a D1 B side.

With the law changes, will be interesting.

...I cursed myself - the home side found another referee to cover this...of course after I invoice them for the season (including this game).

 

[Marc Wakeham]

...I cursed myself - the home side found another referee to cover this...of course after I invoice them for the season (including this game).

You invoice for the season before any games are played?

 

[smeagol]

You invoice for the season before any games are played?

Short answer - Yes.

Detailed answer - Clubs are to get games entered once their schedule is set (we use Arbiter, where each club has to have someone assigned to enter games). Teams were told to have games entered by the 18th. If a game is cancelled/forfeited with ample notice, I get the club refunded the following week.

I give teams 1-2 weeks into the season to get invoices paid (I give college teams more leeway, since payments from the school usually take longer). After that, we threaten to pull refs unless arrangements are made. Digital payments are becoming the norm, so “the check is in the mail” excuse no longer holds water.

I also try to get referees paid the following week - this has helped immensely with retention and getting referees to take games 2-300 miles away from home (so that I don’t get stuck refereeing the same 3-4 teams).

 

[Dickie E]

Short answer - Yes.

Detailed answer - Clubs are to get games entered once their schedule is set (we use Arbiter, where each club has to have someone assigned to enter games). Teams were told to have games entered by the 18th. If a game is cancelled/forfeited with ample notice, I get the club refunded the following week.

I give teams 1-2 weeks into the season to get invoices paid (I give college teams more leeway, since payments from the school usually take longer). After that, we threaten to pull refs unless arrangements are made. Digital payments are becoming the norm, so “the check is in the mail” excuse no longer holds water.

I also try to get referees paid the following week - this has helped immensely with retention and getting referees to take games 2-300 miles away from home (so that I don’t get stuck refereeing the same 3-4 teams).

Put me down to ref next season. I'll PM you my bank details

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Short answer - Yes.

Detailed answer - Clubs are to get games entered once their schedule is set (we use Arbiter, where each club has to have someone assigned to enter games). Teams were told to have games entered by the 18th. If a game is cancelled/forfeited with ample notice, I get the club refunded the following week.

I give teams 1-2 weeks into the season to get invoices paid (I give college teams more leeway, since payments from the school usually take longer). After that, we threaten to pull refs unless arrangements are made. Digital payments are becoming the norm, so “the check is in the mail” excuse no longer holds water.

I also try to get referees paid the following week - this has helped immensely with retention and getting referees to take games 2-300 miles away from home (so that I don’t get stuck refereeing the same 3-4 teams).

I can see so many problem with this system. Ours is easy. The Union pays use directly month in arrears for LEague and cup games. Clubs pay from friendlies. Universities and schools pay for all their games. The Max I can be owed is one game direct from a club. Ifthey don't pay I wwith draw from their next fixture. Thankfull no fixture is a massive distance / cost so never too worried about one game.

 

[smeagol]

I can see so many problem with this system. Ours is easy. The Union pays use directly month in arrears for LEague and cup games. Clubs pay from friendlies. Universities and schools pay for all their games. The Max I can be owed is one game direct from a club. Ifthey don't pay I wwith draw from their next fixture. Thankfull no fixture is a massive distance / cost so never too worried about one game.

We operate independently of the Union.

When we switched to this model, we gave clubs ample time to adjust and are willing to work something out if a club is struggling financially. We also give college clubs additional leeway, since the bureaucracy can be a mountain to climb.

Distance is absolutely a factor - just today, I did 400mi round trip for a game. Despite the name being the Chicago society, we cover games in Peoria, Champaign, Bloomington, and Gerogetown.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Not sure I'd want to referee without the cover of my union. We are trained and insured through our Union and its Referees' department. We don't do any Youth or above game without the union appointing us / regularly assessing us and ensuring consistency and competence.

I like it like that. It's not perfect but it is comfortable.

Who is in charge and who do your referees' societies answer to. What is your link into World Rugby?

 

[SimonSmith]

Not sure I'd want to referee without the cover of my union. We are trained and insured through our Union and its Referees' department. We don't do any Youth or above game without the union appointing us / regularly assessing us and ensuring consistency and competence.

I like it like that. It's not perfect but it is comfortable.

Who is in charge and who do your referees' societies answer to. What is your link into World Rugby?

In general, in the USA, RefSocs can be independent bodies. They remain part of USAR, and have the R&L committee to help develop standards, promotion criteria etc etc.

My Society, Virginia, detached from Virginia Rugby Union just before it became clear that the American landscape was fragmenting.

In very old days, VRU controlled all rugby in Virginia - Senior Club, Youth, College. In about 2011, they all broke apart and could form their own governing bodies. Colleges, for example, depending on their level, could choose their conference - Chesapeake, Cardinals, or NSCRO; all those bodies were part of USA R, but independent organizations.

RefSoc decided we wanted to be independent so that we could serve all clients equally, and not feel forced to prioritize Senior Club - which was what was left of the VRU - over anything else.

USA R going bankrupt and then reconstituting - which is an essay in and of itself, trust me - just reinforced this balkanized landscape where there is no uniformity of practice across RefSocs.

 

[didds]

"Balkanized" - I like that description

 

[Marc Wakeham]

In general, in the USA, RefSocs can be independent bodies. They remain part of USAR, and have the R&L committee to help develop standards, promotion criteria etc etc.

My Society, Virginia, detached from Virginia Rugby Union just before it became clear that the American landscape was fragmenting.

In very old days, VRU controlled all rugby in Virginia - Senior Club, Youth, College. In about 2011, they all broke apart and could form their own governing bodies. Colleges, for example, depending on their level, could choose their conference - Chesapeake, Cardinals, or NSCRO; all those bodies were part of USA R, but independent organizations.

RefSoc decided we wanted to be independent so that we could serve all clients equally, and not feel forced to prioritize Senior Club - which was what was left of the VRU - over anything else.

USA R going bankrupt and then reconstituting - which is an essay in and of itself, trust me - just reinforced this balkanized landscape where there is no uniformity of practice across RefSocs.

What a complete mess. I don't envy US referees.

 

[smeagol]

What a complete mess. I don't envy US referees.

Piggybacking off what Simon said, the splintering of the game in 2011 is what forced my old LAU to fold in Feb 2013 - college sides outnumbered club sides almost 2:1, and youth rugby in the area was still in its infancy (and is now dead outside of Georgetown).

On the advice of elders, I chose to commit to the Chicago Society instead of Missouri/Mid-America.

We register with USAR, which links us to WR and is how we are insured.

I get to experience firsthand the effects of said balkanization - last spring, I refereed under four different LAUs (Chicago, Indiana, Mid-America, Mid-South), and every single one handles things differently in terms of how games are assigned and referee payment rates.

 

[Balones]

This thread has certainly been an education for me!

 

[smeagol]

I can see so many problem with this system. Ours is easy. The Union pays use directly month in arrears for LEague and cup games. Clubs pay from friendlies. Universities and schools pay for all their games. The Max I can be owed is one game direct from a club. Ifthey don't pay I wwith draw from their next fixture. Thankfull no fixture is a massive distance / cost so never too worried about one game.

Wanted to add - the unions/organizing bodies I have to deal with (Rugby Illinois, and the Midwest Territory/GU) are the worst offenders when it comes to paying up - to clarify, I wear two treasurer hats; one for the Chicago Society and one for the Midwest Society. The Midwest Society covers Division 1 games in all or part of the following states

- Minnesota
- Iowa
- Wisconsin
- Missouri
- Illinois
- Indiana
- Michigan
- Ohio
- Pennsylvania (western/Pittsburgh)

For playoffs games and 7s tournaments, RIL and the Midwest agree to pick up the bill. I set up google sheets breaking down game by game the match fee and travel expense, and send a link to it along with the invoice.

The Midwest Union still owes me about $3500 in 7s travel expenses that I can’t pay (refs get match fees, and every time the refs ask when the moneys coming (since they’re used to getting prompt payment from me; and it’s going on a month since the events in question), I throw the Union under the bus.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Wanted to add - the unions/organizing bodies I have to deal with (Rugby Illinois, and the Midwest Territory/GU) are the worst offenders when it comes to paying up - to clarify, I wear two treasurer hats; one for the Chicago Society and one for the Midwest Society. The Midwest Society covers Division 1 games in all or part of the following states

- Minnesota
- Iowa
- Wisconsin
- Missouri
- Illinois
- Indiana
- Michigan
- Ohio
- Pennsylvania (western/Pittsburgh)

For playoffs games and 7s tournaments, RIL and the Midwest agree to pick up the bill. I set up google sheets breaking down game by game the match fee and travel expense, and send a link to it along with the invoice.

The Midwest Union still owes me about $3500 in 7s travel expenses that I can’t pay (refs get match fees, and every time the refs ask when the moneys coming (since they’re used to getting prompt payment from me; and it’s going on a month since the events in question), I throw the Union under the bus.

I'd be telling the teams: "Sorry boys but you've no referees until the unions sort themselves out".

 

[smeagol]

I'd be telling the teams: "Sorry boys but you've no referees until the unions sort themselves out".

I don't handle assignments, just the money.

Overall, I have a very good rapport with the Chicago and Midwest referees. I personally pushed for and implemented the moves that led to referees being paid on the trot - when I took over as Midwest treasurer and saw how much referees were fronting out of pocket for travel (upwards of $2-3000 in some cases), I pushed for pre-billing clubs.

Once I worked out the kinks of pre-billing and setting up electronic payment methods (Zelle, PayPal, Venmo, etc), I pushed for similar steps once I took over as Chicago treasurer, but for different reasons - being paid on the trot was used as a way to help get and retain younger referees, as well as encourage those younger referees to travel 150-200 miles each way to my neck of the woods.

For referees with families, those drives require some finagling on the home front, given that the referee is giving up most of their Saturday - as an example, I drove 200 miles each way to the south side of Chicago for a 12pm KO last weekend - I left the house around 630am, and did not get home until 630pm.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Well I'd withdraw my services and I'd be encouraging colleagus to do the same. We have students reffing who use the cash to suplement their income for living. Being owed money for weeks / moths is not on.

I don't understand giving colleges leeway. They will never get their act togther if you let them take the mick.

 

[smeagol]

For the Midwest, I’ve encountered one college student who was refereeing on that panel, and he was the reason I pushed for the changes.

In having to prioritize on that end, the younger referees and those owed the most are getting paid first.

Re: colleges, two factors are at play

1 - students are just now starting the fall semester in most cases. Beyond that, two schools we cover are on trimesters, and they don’t start classes until September.

2 - if the club is going through the university to get the invoice paid (and ask for a W9 from me), that process can take time.

In my experience, they don’t take the mick, it’s a matter of giving them time to work through the bureaucracy, and that process can’t start until campuses open back up.

 

[WombleRef]

first game of the season was meant to be a L9 friendly last Saturday - home team there, I’m there all ready - 30 minutes before kick off, away team rings and says they aren’t coming.

my new first game of the season - a L7 schools tournament - gonna have to dust off the cobwebs very fast for this one!