[Law] "Why the **** did you do that?"

TheBFG


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So Saturday afternoon, good open game, no foul play (that i saw) in the whole game! L6 match :wink:

Part way through the first half, away side have a solid scrum ball held at the #8's feet, scrum half of the same team reaches down and picks the ball up, there's then a call from the pack leader and the scrum half puts the ball back in the scrum at the 8's feet :wow: The opposition SH looks at me with a confused look on his face........

What do you do/give?
 

KoolFork

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Must be a penalty. Scrum's over. Everyone in the scrum is offside.
 

chbg


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The first offence, I hope, is a knock-on when the SH put the ball back in the scrum. Alternatively, in some people's English, the SH has brought the ball back into the scrum, so it is a FK.

All with enough communication to ensure that the SH is nominated for Dick of the Day.
 

Flish


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Knock On? I think there’s an FK sanction for pulling the ball back in, but that’s from the perspective of someone in the scrum I think

Edit: Jinx!
 

KoolFork

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19.38.d Free Kick

That's not what the scrum half is doing. It's not a knock-on either. There's nothing to stop a player putting the ball down on the ground is there? Tackled players sometimes do this so that they can carry on.

The scrum is over when the ball's out. It cannot start again. Anyone in front of the ball is potentially offside, so it it's played, PK?
 

thepercy


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That's not what the scrum half is doing. It's not a knock-on either. There's nothing to stop a player putting the ball down on the ground is there? Tackled players sometimes do this so that they can carry on.

The scrum is over when the ball's out. It cannot start again. Anyone in front of the ball is potentially offside, so it it's played, PK?

Your logic would mean that you could never return the ball to a scrum as the scrum has ended when the ball left the scrum, and 19.38.d could never happen.

Perhaps the wording should be "Bringing the ball back into a former scrum."?
 

KoolFork

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Your logic would mean that you could never return the ball to a scrum as the scrum has ended when the ball left the scrum, and 19.38.d could never happen.

Perhaps the wording should be "Bringing the ball back into a former scrum."?[/QUOT

:hap: The Laws could certainly be more clearly written, but if the ball leaves the scrum 'legally', the scrum is generally regarded as over. Even with 19.38.d the scrum is over, but it is not relevant to the case in point.
 

TheBFG


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I think we've all seen a scrum half roll a ball back in with their foot = FK, but to pick it up, only a few inches and then put it back down again (no knock on) in the scrum :wow:
 

Mipper


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Surely the ball is live, if there was no knock-on, so the oppo 9 could pick it up, and if any of the forwards play it they’re offside?
 

Jz558


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I think I'd rather avoid the inevitable conflict that would come from the oppo 9 reaching into the pack to retrieve the ball. Would rather blow and restart the game cleanly. I think you could sell either a penalty or free-kick given the scale of the brain fart.
 

beckett50


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Technically by lifting the ball the #9 has taken the ball out of the Scrum.

By placing it back on the ground in-front of the feet of the hindmost player he has placed the ball back in the scrum.

FK, and Dick of the Day
 

KoolFork

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Surely the ball is live, if there was no knock-on, so the oppo 9 could pick it up, and if any of the forwards play it they’re offside?

I agree, but I suspect it was a one-off and nothing to get too worried about.
 
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