wot? No advantage?

[Dickie E]

I was watching the end of a S15 game from the Republic - Cheetahs v Sharks with Hoffmann the ref.

Sharks need a converted try to tie the game and are awarded a scrum on Cheetahs 5 metre line with time expired. Cheetahs appear to collapse the scrum and Hoffmann plays advantage (could have been a PT IMO). Ruck forms and new advantage played.

Sharks run the ball left and ball-carrier is tackled near corner post. TMO involved, etc. In touch, no try, game over. WTF? What about the advantage?

Perhaps someone cleverer that me can post a video clip.

 

[OB..]

The general rule seems to be that you do not give a PT simply for a scrum collapse -the scrum has to be moving forward in such a way that the collapse was engineered to prevent a pushover try.

As for the second advantage at a ruck, what was it for?

 

[Dickie E]

I'm not so concerned about the PT as there can be lots of interpretation (prop slips, etc). Let's see if we can see some vid.

 

[ChrisR]

From your description and subsequent exclamation the Sharks would have had to score, or at least get into goal, for advantage to be over. Not sure that makes sense. However, if the second advantage was for penalty and the game can't end on a penalty, then I'm getting your drift.

 

[Browner]

Cheetahs appear to collapse the scrum and Hoffmann plays advantage

As an aside, Presumably 8.3(d) doesn't apply for the pros!

d) Collapsed scrum. Advantage must not be applied when a scrum collapses. The referee must blow the whistle immediately.

 

[Dickie E]

As an aside, Presumably 8.3(d) doesn't apply for the pros!

d) Collapsed scrum. Advantage must not be applied when a scrum collapses. The referee must blow the whistle immediately.

Fair call. I guess if the ball is at back of scrum and there to be played, the ref will allow play to continue.

 

[The Fat]

Fair call. I guess if the ball is at back of scrum and there to be played, the ref will allow play to continue.

AIUI, the no advantage law for a collapsed scrum is for safety reasons??? i.e. Scrum collapses, blow immediately, make sure everyone OK, play PK.
At the elite level, some refs will allow play to continue if the ball has been won and is at the 8's feet even if the scrum is going down. SW did it a couple of times in the Waratahs v Highlanders game yesterday and it kept the game flowing

 

[Browner]

AIUI, the no advantage law for a collapsed scrum is for safety reasons??? i.e. Scrum collapses, blow immediately, make sure everyone OK, play PK.
At the elite level, some refs will allow play to continue if the ball has been won and is at the 8's feet even if the scrum is going down. SW did it a couple of times in the Waratahs v Highlanders game yesterday and it kept the game flowing

The Game flow periodic law illness, TBH, idea that some do and some don't is daft- Unofficially its being ignored in favour of ..a....
Quick glance, doesn't look too serious, so play on ...... decision process.

This allows an emergency escape hatch , if they need it. Which also means they are relying on the pro's neck strength of 1-2-3 too often.

Matt Hampson would be turning on his tyres!

 

[chbg]

The video clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TQlI3EOjKs&list=UUgQXAHdKEU0AA-mx-tGRnxQ&index=3

I can't work out when advantage became over, until said so after posing the question to the TMO.

 

[Browner]

The video clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TQlI3EOjKs&list=UUgQXAHdKEU0AA-mx-tGRnxQ&index=3

I can't work out when advantage became over, until said so after posing the question to the TMO.

Nor can I. Seems like the only time the Sharks get beyond the 5m line is in the final strides.

With hindsight, Sharks would have simply been better advised to not continue playing and instead opt for another reset scrum, which kinda makes a mockery of the 'keep trying to play ideology' of a PK advantge.

Overall I don't agree with this ADV-OVER decision, nor could JS ( not that he's always correct).

 

[RobLev]

The video clip:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TQlI3EOjKs&list=UUgQXAHdKEU0AA-mx-tGRnxQ&index=3

I can't work out when advantage became over, until said so after posing the question to the TMO.

Ditto.

I think that the penalty wasn't for the scrum collapse, but for White 19 unbinding before the ball comes out. Why moving the ball 40m laterally and 5 forward cancels a penalty advantage I have no idea.

 

[Andrew1974]

What the clip does not show is that in the minute or so before this action there was at least (from memory) two other penalties about 5m out, one of which was for collapsed scrum, there was also a yellow card ( I think for throwing the ball away after a penalty was awarded, but I'm not 100% sure). No where can an advantage over call be heard until after the ref goes to the video ref. I thought the ref got this wrong, it should of been a penalty, with a warning that this is repeated infringing and to behave at the next scrum (assuming the scrum option is taken)

 

[ddjamo]

hope the pooch is okay after that....

 

[RobLev]

hope the pooch is okay after that....

It was last seen laying back, smoking...