[Law] WR Law Quiz

[Rich_NL]

From the 2018 Law Quiz, Foul Play, multiple answer question:

1 A player kicks the ball from the middle of the halfway line and is then obstructed on the 10 metre line. The ball lands in-goal 7 metres from the touch-in-goal line. What option(s) are available to the kicker's team?

a Penalty kick at the place of obstruction
b Drop-out kick
c Scrum on the 5m line, 5m from the touchline
d Penalty kick on the 5m line, 15m from the touchline

I answered "a, c, d", but "a, d" is given as the correct combination.

Does the scrum option (20.3) not apply to late charges?

 

[Dan_A]

I would say that a scrum option exists but it would have to be from the same place as the kick, so option C would be wrong on that basis?

 

[crossref]

I think it's a or d

But then like any PK the team can choose to turn the PK into a scrum

 

[Rich_NL]

Dan - Why would it have to be from the same place as the (initial) kick? The mark for the penalty kick decides where the scrum is to be taken, no?

crossref - so it's an option available to the kicker's team?

 

[crossref]

Dan - Why would it have to be from the same place as the (initial) kick? The mark for the penalty kick decides where the scrum is to be taken, no?

crossref - so it's an option available to the kicker's team?

Well sort of .. it's the option to convert a PK to the scrum.
The place of the scrum is either of the PK locations A or D
Not the location mentioned in C

 

[Rich_NL]

I must be missing something here, too:

5 The attacking team kicks the ball towards the goal-line. A defender with one foot on the goal line picks up the ball which was in motion within the field of play and grounds the ball in-goal. What should the referee rule?
a 5 metre scrum, attacking team's put-in
b 5 metre scrum, defending team's put-in
c A 22 drop-out

I answered a, c is given as correct. When I answer a, I get directed to two laws as clarification of where I'm going wrong:

21.14 If a player, who is in in-goal, catches or picks up a ball that is still in the field of play, that player has taken the ball into in-goal.

and

12.11 Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out

Am I misreading something or going mental? Defender takes the ball from the field of play and grounds it in-goal.

- - - Updated - - -

Well sort of .. it's the option to convert a PK to the scrum.
The place of the scrum is either of the PK locations A or D
Not the location mentioned in C

Argh! *5*m from the touchline, I didn't see that. Thanks!

 

[crossref]

The quiz was not properly updated for changes in the 2018 Law Book, nor for the global law trials being added into Law

 

[Phil E]

For obstructing the kicker it is penalty where he was obstructed or penalty where it lands.

Are you sure your not getting confused with the 10m law and a kick, which is penalty or scrum?

 

[Christy]

Late charging the kicker.


The opposition chooses either at the place of the
infringement, where the ball landed or where the
ball was next played.
- If the infringement takes place in the kicker’s in-
goal, the penalty is taken five metres from the
goal line in line with the place of infringement
but at least 15 metres from the touchline.
- The non-offending team may also choose to take
the penalty where the ball lands or where it is
next played before landing, at least 15 metres
from the touchline.
- If the ball lands in touch, the optional penalty is
on the 15-metre line, in line with where it went
into touch.
- If the ball lands, or is next played before landing,
within 15 metres of the touchline, the mark is on
the 15-metre line opposite where the ball landed
or was played.
- If the ball lands in in-goal, in touch-in-goal, or on
or over the dead-ball line, the optional penalty is
five metres from the goal line, in line with the
place where the ball crossed the goal line and at
least 15 metres from the touchline.
- If the ball hits a goal post or crossbar, the optional
penalty kick is awarded where the ball lands

 

[Rich_NL]

For obstructing the kicker it is penalty where he was obstructed or penalty where it lands.

Are you sure your not getting confused with the 10m law and a kick, which is penalty or scrum?

No, I misread c) as a "scrum at 5m/15m", rather than 5m/5m

The quiz was not properly updated for changes in the 2018 Law Book, nor for the global law trials being added into Law

Oh, I thought it had been updated for the trials? That explains it. Odd that they went to the work of updating the reference to something that clearly contradicts the answer...

 

[Flish]

Thought, I know technically it is late charging the kicker, but is it the same law sanction if the kicker has been able to run 10m since the kick as per the OP, Is that not just obstruction? I mean there’s late and then there’s laaaaaaate! It’s not really a charge any more?

 

[crossref]

I must say when I read the question I initially thought that would be what the question was about.. the kicker runs 10m and then is obstructed, does that count as a late charge ? Or just common or garden obstruction

 

[Taff]

For obstructing the kicker it is penalty where he was obstructed or penalty where it lands.

But I thought the obstruction had to be pretty soon after the ball was kicked - almost instantaneous.

In this case, the kicker has run 10m before he gets obstructed. Does the PK / PK option still exist?

 

[Flish]

Probably one of those ‘you have to see it’, but 10m is a fair trek, I think it’s probably just plain old obstruction

 

[Marc Wakeham]

I'm like ly to err on the side of the kicker.

Late charge 1m after and the PK could be 40m ( or more) upfield

Late charge 5m after and the PK could be 40m ( or more) upfield

Late charge 9m after and the PK could be 40m ( or more) upfield

Late charge 10m after and the PK could be 9m from the kick.

So the more blatent offence gets the "smaller" punishment. No thanks.

 

[crossref]

But the last one isn't a late charge

Anyway this is zeno paradox isn't it
What about 11m out , or 15m or 20m

At some point it's not a late charge but just obstruction..

 

[Rich_NL]

The law doesn't differentiate between charging or obstructing a player who's just kicked the ball. I would have no problem giving the penalty if it happens 10m after the kick, I don't think 'just' means a couple of seconds.

[LAWS]9.25 A player must not intentionally charge or obstruct an opponent who has just kicked the ball.[/LAWS]

 

[crossref]

10m is less than 2 second

 

[Rich_NL]

From a running grubber, yes; from a standing kick, no. But it doesn't matter, because I don't think 'just' is a couple of seconds. As long as the ball is in flight and the kicker is chasing it, any obstruction is obstructing a kicker who's just played the ball.

I'm sure there are corner cases and grey areas you could find, a catcher being lifted or a grubber bobbling and slowing as players approach, but regarding your initial question I'd definitely blow it up under 9.25.

 

[didds]

Not sure there's an easy answer to this...

* the closer to the point of kicking, the less chance for the kicker to put teammates onside => greater sanction
* the closer to the point of landing the less important the PK position choice => some redundancy in choice.

the second does rather assume the kicker would be in a poisitio to chase and retrive/tackle etc - a cross field wiper kick wouldn't have this likelihood of course, but the kicker could be continuing upfield in a supporting role for any subsequent play etc

didds