[Law] WR Law Quiz

[Phil E]

For me a late charge on the kicker has to be quite soon after he kicks it.

But obstructing the kicker can be any time between when he kicks it and when he arrives at the landing place of the ball (assuming he chases after it).

The intention of the law is to prevent opponents from stepping in the kickers way as he chases down his own kick to prevent him from getting under it.

 

[Taff]

The law doesn't differentiate between charging or obstructing a player who's just kicked the ball. I would have no problem giving the penalty if it happens 10m after the kick, I don't think 'just' means a couple of seconds.

But at what point does a "kicker" just become another player running after the ball?

The term "just" surely implies that the obstruction / charging needs to be pretty quick - otherwise why say "just" at all? And the kicker is protected under the "Dangerous Play" section, not just the "Obstruction" section which protects everybody.

To me once the kicker has run 10m downfield, he is just another player and covered by the general "Obstruction" law which doesn't give a PK / PK option.

... The intention of the law is to prevent opponents from stepping in the kickers way as he chases down his own kick to prevent him from getting under it.

I always assumed the intention was to stop an opponent taking a cheap shot and charging into a vulnerable kicker who may only have one foot on the ground, and almost certainly watching the ball and not some sneaky opponent.

 

[crossref]

What taff said. Yes I agree.

 

[thepercy]

Does the protection for the kicker extend to kick chasers who pass the kicker and takes on the kickers offside negating properties?

 

[crossref]

Does the protection for the kicker extend to kick chasers who pass the kicker and takes on the kickers offside negating properties?

No ...

 

[Dickie E]

But it doesn't matter, because I don't think 'just' is a couple of seconds. As long as the ball is in flight and the kicker is chasing it, any obstruction is obstructing a kicker who's just played the ball.

I agree with this. If ball is in flight, then it will be a downtown option.

 

[crossref]

This is a very interesting thread .
There are two completely different lines of thought , one saying that the downtown Law applies just for a short time, just after the kick is made, and another school of thought that it lasts all the time the ball is in flight

I wonder which is 'right' This might be worth a clarification request

 

[Camquin]

At the level most of us ref, the ball is only ever in flight a short time.

 

[crossref]

Very true

I suppose there are three possible cut off points
The downtown option could apply
.. only for just a little moment or two after the kick
.. until the ball lands
.. right until the kicker catches up with the ball

 

[Rich_NL]

Props can kick too... that could be several phases later.

 

[Taff]

This is a very interesting thread. There are two completely different lines of thought , one saying that the downtown Law applies just for a short time, just after the kick is made, and another school of thought that it lasts all the time the ball is in flight. I wonder which is 'right' This might be worth a clarification request

I reckon the deliberate inclusion of the word "just" was done on purpose - and restricts the downtown option to a very short period of time after the ball is kicked.

If the law makers wanted to give the kicker the option until the ball landed

• they could have said that - but they didn't or
• they could have simply left out the word "just" - but they didn't do that either.

The downtown option only exists in the "Dangerous Play" section and refers to the "kicker". I still reckon once the kicker is fully back on the ground and can be considered a runner just like every other player, the "dangerous" element of a late charge is gone and the downtown option dies - and he's then protected by the normal "Obstruction" law which apply to every player - but that doesn't give a downtown option.

 

[Rich_NL]

If the law makers wanted to give the kicker the option until the ball landed

• they could have said that - but they didn't or
• they could have simply left out the word "just" - but they didn't do that either.

Well that's a silly argument, because it only works on the assumption that "just" means what its conclusion requires it to mean.

You could also argue it means "until the ball bounces/is played", otherwise the lawmakers would have phrased it to use "immediately", which would be consistent with other laws requiring 1-2 seconds.

The downtown option only exists in the "Dangerous Play" section and refers to the "kicker". I still reckon once the kicker is fully back on the ground and can be considered a runner just like every other player, the "dangerous" element of a late charge is gone and the downtown option dies - and he's then protected by the normal "Obstruction" law which apply to every player - but that doesn't give a downtown option.

This can't be the case, because it specifically says late charge *or obstruction* of the kicker, and obstruction's not going to be dangerous immediately after the kick. The only time it will be dangerous is when the kicker's at full speed with his eye on the ball.

However, this would also apply to non-kickers. So we could either assume that filing it under Dangerous Play is a red herring because it has to go *somewhere*, or that "obstructing the kicker" is given as a separate offence because the subsequent position of the mark is different from the usual obstruction that's already been defined.

 

[Camquin]

You are making theassumption that the law makers applied as much thought to drafting the law as we have to analysing it.

 

[crossref]

I think taff point .. that this is about dangerous play is a good one .. it means that it applies at the time of the kick , to protect kickers from cheap shot

 

[Rich_NL]

The late charge part, yes. The obstruction, clearly not.