[Tackle] YC/RD

Arabcheif

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One of the other threads has got me wondering.

If I'm reffing a match and a player commits a YC offence AND denies a clear try scoring opportunity, I'm giving the PT. My question is as the protocol for a PT is to issue a YC automatically. Should you wait and issue the YC after the PT or issue it for the offence?

And if you YC the offence, then award the PT, technically this should be a YC too. So should you then issue a 2nd yellow? This seems overly harsh to me personally. I'd think it makes more sense to issue the YC after the PT.

Or is the timing of the YC irrelevant here. EG you can give the YC then the PT?
 
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crossref


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A PT is always a mandatory YC (even if the offence might not otherwise have deserved it)

For me if there was dangerous offence there is always a potential flashpoint here. Deal with the offence, announcing loudly that is going to be a PT as well as a card (this will calm down the non offending team)

Don't run off under the posts with who knows what handbags developing behind your back
 

Rich_NL

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It's not a double yellow. Foul play causing a penalty try is *at least* a yellow, that's all. Award the try, card the player.

My difficulty with the process is that it's very often a flashpoint, and I don't want to run away to blow between the posts when it could all be kicking off.
 

Ciaran Trainor


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good advice from Crossreff but it is never 2 yellow cards for one offence. Of course if you give the yellow then the player gives you verbals which warrant a second yellow, that would be ok.
 

Arabcheif

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Thanks chaps, this is what I was thinking. I'd always deal with the offence first and calm things down before speaking to the player involved and their captains.

Then give the PT and issue the card. Like I said a double yellow for one offence seems harsh.
 

crossref


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Thanks chaps, this is what I was thinking. I'd always deal with the offence first and calm things down before speaking to the player involved and their captains.

Then give the PT and issue the card. Like I said a double yellow for one offence seems harsh.

Yes but one of your big tools for calming down the 'victim' team is to let them know you are giving a PT .. that will normally go some way to calming them . so don't keep that happy news to yourself, tell them it's coming as soon as you have given the card
 

Dickie E


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A PT is always a mandatory YC (even if the offence might not otherwise have deserved it)

that might be an England thing. Here, if its a collapsed scrum with no clear miscreant, then no YC.
 

Arabcheif

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that might be an England thing. Here, if its a collapsed scrum with no clear miscreant, then no YC.

I always thought if it's a collapsed scrum with no clear offender you reset the scrum. No Penalty offence means no Potential PT.
 

Rich_NL

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that might be an England thing. Here, if its a collapsed scrum with no clear miscreant, then no YC.

Law 8.3. If you can't identify the offender, that's a different matter, though.
 

Marc Wakeham


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One of the other threads has got me wondering.

If I'm reffing a match and a player commits a YC offence AND denies a clear try scoring opportunity, I'm giving the PT. My question is as the protocol for a PT is to issue a YC automatically. Should you wait and issue the YC after the PT or issue it for the offence?

And if you YC the offence, then award the PT, technically this should be a YC too. So should you then issue a 2nd yellow? This seems overly harsh to me personally. I'd think it makes more sense to issue the YC after the PT.

Or is the timing of the YC irrelevant here. EG you can give the YC then the PT?

that might be an England thing. Here, if its a collapsed scrum with no clear miscreant, then no YC.


Law 8.3 Of course if you can't be sure which player commited the offence they "get away" with no card.
 

Marc Wakeham


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One of the other threads has got me wondering.

If I'm reffing a match and a player commits a YC offence AND denies a clear try scoring opportunity, I'm giving the PT. My question is as the protocol for a PT is to issue a YC automatically. Should you wait and issue the YC after the PT or issue it for the offence?

I would deal with any potential flash point first and then go under the posts. You've given the "automatic" card with the PT as the laws require. Don't overthink it.
 

Zebra1922


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I wasn’t aware a PT was an automatic YC. Is this a global directive or a country specific directive?
 

Dickie E


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I wasn’t aware a PT was an automatic YC. Is this a global directive or a country specific directive?

Law 8 tells us:

[LAWS]A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted. [/LAWS]

But I would use my own judgement.

Lower level U14 game. Blue fullback attempts clearing kick from deadball line but its a shocker and is caught by an opponent 2 metres out. Offside Blue team mate tackles catcher. PT? Yes. YC? Maybe not
 

Marc Wakeham


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[LAWS] 8.3 A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team
prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A
player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off.
No
conversion is attempted. [/LAWS]

The Law used to refer to "Intentional" offending but this missed the "clrification" was it "intentional" to omit? I guess you pays your money etc...
 
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crossref


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All PK offences are intentional, (or presumed intentional) aren't they ? That's why they are PK and not scrum
 

crossref


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Law 8 tells us:

[LAWS]A penalty try is awarded between the goal posts if foul play by the opposing team prevents a probable try from being scored, or scored in a more advantageous position. A player guilty of this must be cautioned and temporarily suspended or sent off. No conversion is attempted. [/LAWS]

But I would use my own judgement.

Lower level U14 game. Blue fullback attempts clearing kick from deadball line but its a shocker and is caught by an opponent 2 metres out. Offside Blue team mate tackles catcher. PT? Yes. YC? Maybe not

Not quite sure why you would ignore the Law . I think all the players and both coaches would expect a YC as per the Law.

It's only 5 mins isn't it for under 14
 

Dickie E


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All PK offences are intentional, (or presumed intentional) aren't they ? That's why they are PK and not scrum

that's tricky. If what you say is correct then every penalty is a law 9 (foul play) offence which says:

[LAWS]A player must not:
Intentionally infringe any law of the game. [/LAWS]

and

[LAWS]A player who commits foul play must either be cautioned or temporarily suspended or sent off.[/LAWS]

Do you caution a player at every penalty?
 

Rich_NL

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I understand cynical play, I understand dangerous play, at a push I get repeated infringements, all counting as foul play for the purposes of PTs and overruling advantage. I don't get why obstruction comes under law 9 though.
 
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