Yellow card after try, after time

DocP


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yes, they might fit into the deep breath and here we go category.


yep.. but let's say the score is 42 points to 5 (in either direction)
I'd just end the game

If you prolong it by restarting the game there is no upside to anyone.

but there is a possible downside -- you are naturally expecting Blue to tap and kick to touch to end the game -- but they decide they are going to play on in order to teach a lesson to Red#6 .

I hear what you ar saying, and technically correct. But also some pragmatism can be appropriate.
I'm sorry, for me you can't do that. It is not backed up by law just the refs feeling at that moment. If a side is winning by 42 points and you deny them the chance of an extra 3 and they lose the league and don't get promoted on a points scored of 1 where does that put you on the "fairness" scale. They lost the chance to win the league and the outcome of next season on a decision that you can not back up in law but how you felt at the time.

You say there is no upside to anyone but you don't know that at the time unless you have studied the league table in detail and know all the permiatations of your decision and bring those onto the field with you.

Stick to the book for me. Then outcome is not based on a decision the ref has made. Rugby these days is more than just the 80 mins on the field there are many consequences that happen off the field of play. Yes, I know the chances are slim to none but why put yourself in that position. Stick to what can be backed up in law.
If blue decide to "teach a lesson to Red#6" that is their call but they will then suffer the concequences if they do so outside the law book. Again their choice not the referee's.
 

DocP


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Also, if you had a captain, non offending team, who knew the law and that it should restart with a pk on the half way, and they wanted it, how would you sell your decision to blow up for no side?
 

Ciaran Trainor


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"The referee's whistle blows for no side"
Now then, all of you of a certain age will have read that statement whilst doing an impression of Bill McLaren in your head ;)
 

Decorily

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Since the clock is running in terms of the allotted time for a conversion kick then the ball presumably isn't dead immediately after the try is awarded.
Therefore why is the mark for the penalty following an infringement in the ingoal not on the 5m line in line with the point of infringement as per 20.1?
 

didds

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presumably... cos a restart after a try is always on the centre spot, and each try (PT aside) has a conversion.
So the PK is where play would restart ie on the centre spot, following the conversion
 

BikingBud


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"The referee's whistle blows for no side"
Now then, all of you of a certain age will have read that statement whilst doing an impression of Bill McLaren in your head ;)
Thanks for this. It took me on a moment of reminiscing that brought back what quality commentators really added to the game:

 

crossref


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There may be for the side that is 37 points up.
they could extend that to 44 points up - for a better points difference in their league.

Or there may be for the team that is 37 points down
they could reduce that to 30 points down - for a better points difference in their league.
Possibly
But on the other hand someone has committed a YC worthy act of foul play after the whistle, after time has expired so I am imagining this is not a very well tempered game!
If we proceed to a fight it's not good for anyone
 
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Rich_NL

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If you're that worried, you should abandon the match - which you're effectively doing by ending it in contravention of the laws.

Unless it is exceptionally nasty-looking, to the point you would abandon it at any other point in the game, I'd call the captains over, manage it, and play on.
 

crossref


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If you're that worried, you should abandon the match - which you're effectively doing by ending it in contravention of the laws.

Unless it is exceptionally nasty-looking, to the point you would abandon it at any other point in the game, I'd call the captains over, manage it, and play on.
Technically yes, that is exactly what I would be doing

Match abandoned at 82 mins, after a successful conversion . Score 47-5

Really .. nothing to see there. Happy days

Speaking generally..Have you never blown for full time a couple minutes early as the match is lost and won, and everything is starting to get a bit lary ?

Every ref I know has done that... Not sure why you are treating the notion as so unusual
 

Phil E


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Technically yes, that is exactly what I would be doing

Match abandoned at 82 mins, after a successful conversion . Score 47-5

Really .. nothing to see there. Happy days

Speaking generally..Have you never blown for full time a couple minutes early as the match is lost and won, and everything is starting to get a bit lary ?

Every ref I know has done that... Not sure why you are treating the notion as so unusual

Except that if you abandon a match you need to complete a match abandonment form, which goes to the RFU.
 

didds

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so the path of least resistance is to award the PK on half way and play the match out and save the paperwork. If needed with a strong word with the captains about any stupidity will be a RC as if you have to fill the paperwork in you'll do it for that, and if you have to spend time filling in one RC form you might be tempted to be happy to fill in several...
 

crossref


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Except that if you abandon a match you need to complete a match abandonment form, which goes to the RFU.
In theory but is that what you do when you decide to blow a couple of mins early ? I have never heard of that happening
 

Phil E


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In theory but is that what you do when you decide to blow a couple of mins early ? I have never heard of that happening

If I blow a couple of minutes early it isn't an abandoned match. My watch is just a bit fast ;)
 

crossref


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If I blow a couple of minutes early it isn't an abandoned match. My watch is just a bit fast ;)
And in the OP scenario I think you'll find that the offence actually happened a moment or two before I awarded the try ;-)
 

Marc Wakeham


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I agree that if the penalty was given for an offense after the try was scored, there should be a PK restart at the 50, even though time had expired.
THe OP does not say when the offence occured so it is not possible to say whether or not there is a PK restart.
If the offence as before the try (advantage being played) then there is no restart. If the offence was after the try score (abuse, "putting the knee in"etc) then you restart with a PK.

Without more detail we cannot say. But the OP's understanding the the general principles agree with mine.
I started playing rugby in ~ 1980, but I have no memory of ever hearing this term before today.
If you ever heard Bill Mclaren commentate you would have heard the term.
 

Marc Wakeham


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What about 4 try bonus point, or points difference. In the world of leagues that we now live in all these things have concequences. If the non-offending team are not bothered they can just tap and kick to touch. I think in this scenario you won't know all the factors that are happening off the pitch so you have to go with what is backed up by law and not make a judgement based on the situation you find yourself in. I personally would always restart with the pen and inform the captain that he can tap and kick to touch if he wants to end the game. Their choice then, not mine.
There may be for the side that is 37 points up.
they could extend that to 44 points up - for a better points difference in their league.

Or there may be for the team that is 37 points down
they could reduce that to 30 points down - for a better points difference in their league.
Agree with that. There is a whole can of worms that you could be opening by denying the penalty restart. deny a side a championship title when they win 41-7 on points difference when a 44-7 win would have made then the Champions. OUCH!

You also need to be careful with your report. If you try to be clever by telling the players the "offence" occured before the try so it is full time. Your report must continue that lie rather than tell the truth. Your credibility has also walked away from you in the eyes of the players.
 

Marc Wakeham


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If I blow a couple of minutes early it isn't an abandoned match. My watch is just a bit fast ;)
Agreed 5 mins to go in a friendly and it's 50-0 I am probably going to blow. But NOT on a PK. Knock on: a quick look at my watch and " Knock on guys time's up".

The PK: people can show you are wrong in law (Just to prove that while a refis sole judge of fact, that does not mean the referee can't be wrong!).

The Scrum: no one can argue with what your watch as showing at the time.
 
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