yellow cards

ex-lucy


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i am surpised no fred on this ..

how many pks would you award before showing a YC to a prop?

at L8 ?
at L12?
at international level?

for me ...
at L8 = 1 talking to then on 3rd pk, with chats at downtime
at L12 = 2 talkings to then on 3rd pk, with chats at downtime
at int level = 1 talking to, then on 2nd pk

i dont u/stand why Barnes and Poite didnt YC a prop each
 

lawsons

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once again, depends upon circumstances. I don't think you can apply a 3 strikes and your off rule. Are these offensive or defensive offences ? Are they for the same thing each time ? are they dangerous ? How much time has elapsed between each offense. Have you had good scrums in between bad ones ? are conditions helpful ?
 

Jacko


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It's a difficult balance to strike. You have to weigh up the benefits of showing a yellow in such a situation, as if the replacement is no better and you get rid of him too you might be forced to go uncontested, utterly negating the dominant side's advantage at this phase.
 

Davet

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I don't think there any hard and fast rules for showinga YC - each case on its own merits.

I don't think ex-Lucy is too far out in general terms, but the card could come earlier if needed, or if circumstances and conditions are otherwise, it could come later.

I know that's probably little help, but that's how rugby is, it needs individual judgements, even when wrapped around a framework of expectation.
 

upnunder


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Everything in context.

Could be the first offence, could be the 3rd or 4th offence if there is no pattern other than it is the same player.
 

FlipFlop


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Was discussing with some people the issue of YCs at scrum time and the problem of potentially going uncontested and came up with a compromise solution:

How about if a scrum (unit of 8) is penalised repeatedly, then as a unit they take the YC. It was suggested that the non-infringing team got to nominate the member of the pack who has to sit out the 10min.

Our view was that this would prevent a team consistently infringing at a scrum, but without compromising the ability of the non-infringing team to scrummage. Imagine - NZ get pinged, so send McCaw to the bin, Aus - send Pocock to the bin.

There was dissent that perhaps you are YCing a player who did not infringe, but it was generally accepted that it was a team game, and the scrum is a unit, with it very hard to select who exactly was responsible, so let the unit take responsibility.

and it was thought that it would force teams to scrummage better and not risk the repeat infringement as they wouldn't want to lose their star player. So hopefully reduce terrible international scrummaging.
 

OB..


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FlipFlop - doesn't that mean the referee is prepared to award a penalty without knowing who infringed? So what was the offence?
 

FlipFlop


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OB - we discussed that as well. But the view was that a ref should only be penalising what they know - just like now. We were trying to stop a situation of a team, say Gold, having props in the bin for illegal scrummaging, so uncontested scrums (injury replacement then one to the bin), which only go to help the team infringing, and disadvantage the non-infringing team.
 

ex-lucy


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from my pers perspective, i found it amazing to see a thp not scrummaging correctly (technically woeful imho), being penalised a few times and then pop up on the outside wing to score a try ....
IMHO, he should not have been on the pitch at that moment (interestingly he was replaced immediately after scoring, probably the coach realised he was about to be carded to replaced him).
The team should be penalised.
The team should thus be forced to rethink their set-piece priorities to select a player who can prop at test level but who may not appear on the end of a multi-phase move to score tries due to the fact that he has sacrificed his CV fitness and skills by being a test standard prop.

the unwillingness to YC a prop in these circumstances is not taking the wider picture into account.

yes, there is the advantage to oppo to take into account if it should go to uncontested scrums.
yes, there is the tv audience to consider and the entertainment factor.
but referees and then indirectly, the coaches, have a duty of care to the wider picture and the game.

disgusted from FR union
 

Phil E


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i kiss in French very well .... ;)

What you lot in the front row get up to in the privacy of your own scrum is entirely up to you :wow: :eek: :=
 

L'irlandais

, Promises to Referee in France
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I didn't know you were French? :bday:
Unlucky Phil,
Only it's not called a Union, on this side of the channel - Fédération Française de Rugby. (FFR)

While we're on the topic of the real FR Union, I hear Brian Moore is to undertake Scrum V's challenge for the current season. Anyone when this is due to happen? Any chance he'll knock Andy Nicol (ex-Scotland captain) off the top spot on the Brian Moore Challenge Leader Board?

Perhaps this should be a seperate thread? fred?
 
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