Zulu Chant

Taffy


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Firstly apologies for lack of activity on the forum. Family circumstances - difficult.

Would really appreciate comments on the following from yesterday.

White leading after 20 minutes, clearly the better team, they are up by 30 points.

Green attacking in the 22 after a penalty for chit chat by white (they had been warned). This has got them riled and they show further dissent, move it a further ten metres on and green now have a penalty on the 5 metre line (the closest green have been all game).

I am right in front of the post, Green are raring to go and about ten of the white team are under the posts facing the attackers and start calling the "set", ready to launch themselves at the attackers. Partially because I am so close, they are in such a concentrated form and they are so hyped up it comes across as a mad Zulu War Chant and was very intimidating.

As we all now, it is but in a split second that you make a decision. I blew for time off and asked the skipper to stop it as it was "ungentlemanly". Obviously I was looking for things by now, still not sure if I would do it again. We proceeded.

I explained to the captain after the match in the bar that I would post this and see what the response was. I don't mind at all being told I got it wrong, but you have to admit there is never a dull moment reffing and this was a new one on me. Feel a little bit foolish now, but it was split second thing!

Any thoughts?
 

OB..


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I agree with you. They were raising the temperature and your job is to cool it down. Did it work?
 

ddjamo


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fully within your rights as the referee to maintain control and a safe atmosphere.
 

Rushforth


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A brief time-off sounds like an excellent solution to potential further escalation.
 

Phil E


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Sounds like a good decision to me. It may have prevented foul play from red mist, as such it might have been good refereeing. We will never know, but by doing it no one was hurt.
 

Pegleg

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Concur with all the above. Well done!
 

Dickie E


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I wonder if Green were happy with the slow down. With 10 opponents under the posts that only left 5 to defend out wide.

But I'm OK with your time off decision however consider if you could have done something different in the lead up to manage the situation. A penalty for dissent followed by a 10 metre march for further dissent? Might be worthy of a chat anyway.
 

beckett50


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Good game management. Sometimes we need to slow things down to take out the heat
 

pmt246

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Good Morning Gentleman,

First let me introduce my self as the White teams Captain. Please let me also add that I thought the referee had a good game and would welcome him to referee us any time he is available. We enjoyed being refereed by Taffy and thought his game management was the best we have had all season and wish him good luck on his path up the refereeing ladder. As a journey man referee and a level 2 coach I would just like to clarify a few points for both myself as a referee and as a player / coach.

Leading up to this decision we were getting verbal, "agreed" but a few plays before we had just had the greens given a try even though thier own linesman was waving his flag for them in touch back on the half way line. We had being calling our defensive set all game, a common call when getting ready for a rush defence. Whilst we agree, evening up the play a little makes sense to keep players in the game, (something I totally agree with), would it not have been better to call a time out then or even not give the try, rather than let play continue and the white team get more agitated. A few plays later we infringed and as Taffy so rightly said we should have been more disciplined, something I will correct at training.

"I am right in front of the post, Green are raring to go and about ten of the white team are under the posts facing the attackers and start calling the "set", ready to launch themselves at the attackers. Partially because I am so close, they are in such a concentrated form and they are so hyped up it comes across as a mad Zulu War Chant and was very intimidating."

Would it also not have been more constructive to allow whites to call the set and let play continue, we were defending our 5 meter line, they didnt score, and then next break of play a quiet chat with the captain or even call a time out and talk with the white team. I understand in the heat of the situation it is harder to say things in the right manner, "I would agree that I find it hard too". As a coach the calling of the defensive set is a valuble tool in any arsenal designed to keep the players playing at an intensity needed to defend, especially on the try line.

Let me state again this is not a disagreement with Taffy as I think he was very even and refereed well, just asking for a few thoughts as to how a defensive set should be called and how as a player/ coach I should get the players to channel better if desisions are being balanced? Let me also say that in the second half we were better discplined and gave the referee more room and clearer spaces to allow his decision making to be easier.

Many thanks

Phil
 

Taffy


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Phil,

Great post - let's keep the discussion going!

Taffy
 

crossref


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Phil just raises more questions than he answers :)

What's the story here ?
we had just had the greens given a try even though thier own linesman was waving his flag for them in touch back on the half way line.
 

didds

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I wonder if Green were happy with the slow down. With 10 opponents under the posts that only left 5 to defend out wide.
.

That was my first thought I must say

didds
 

L'irlandais

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To be honest I think Taffy was very fair with White team, just calling time out to diffuse things.
There is a vast difference between announcing a defensive play, and aggressive chanting from 10 players.
For me that's unfair behavior (especially following on from repeated dissent.) & I think worthy of a penalty.

Law reference 22.17(c)

As for the try awarded by the match ref, which you feel caused the dissent, the man is entitled to make a mistake.
You as captain should not let players be vocal in their disagreement with the ref ; it didn't help any, did it?
 

SimonSmith


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Seriously? A penalty for that?

Mmm. Interesting.
 

Taffy


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Seriously? A penalty for that?

Mmm. Interesting.

Just to confirm I didn't award a penalty for the "Chant". I just blew for time off and had a word. The previous try/no try incident was a separate issue, which I got worong as should have come back for the line out, but so much noise at the time could not hear the touch judge!
 

crossref


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my 2p worth

- generally speaking : yes it's a good idea to act to curb chanting if it has become overly aggressive and inflammatory

- but if the opposing team are just about to take an attacking PK, 5m from the tryline .... that's perhaps not the best moment to stop the game!
 

didds

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but so much noise at the time could not hear the touch judge!


I must confess to being somewhat surprised that Phil didn;t have a quiet word with you about the touch flag being up.

you must really have scared him previously!

LOL.

didds
 

Shelflife


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I think its a well managed situation, personally I hate those Chants as to me anyway they serve to purpose than to annoy the opposition and create a hostile atmosphere. If one person wants to call the set thats fine but 10+ chanting doesnt make any sense to me.

If they were all behind the line and ready to go I see no problem in stopping and taking the heat out of the situation.
 

crossref


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If they were all behind the line and ready to go I see no problem in stopping and taking the heat out of the situation.

the problem is that, in this field position, it was the chanters who benefited from the time-out.
 

SimonSmith


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Just to confirm I didn't award a penalty for the "Chant". I just blew for time off and had a word. The previous try/no try incident was a separate issue, which I got worong as should have come back for the line out, but so much noise at the time could not hear the touch judge!

My comment wasn't in response to you but to L'Irlandais
 
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