Gain in ground from QT taken inside 22 after ball was put into touch in front of 22

[DrSTU]

Mystery Solved


2. Name: Peter Shortell

Question: We are about to start our season, and I have not heard if the question about a Quick Throw-in counts as putting the ball into the 22. Over here we are told that what matters is where the ball crosses the touch line. If that is inside the 22, then the kicker put it there and if the ball is received from a QT, it can be kicked to touch for a gain in ground.

Elsewhere (South Africa?) I believe it is allowed if the ball has subsequently rolled past the 22m line (or rather a virtual extension of it.).

It has also been pointed out that the ELV required the immediate opponent to the thrower at a line-out to be at least 2 metres for the line of touch. The

2009 law book says specifically 2 metres. A slip, or deliberate?

Jonathan Kaplan: As usual your synopsis is spot on. That is my understanding of the Law and I have checked it up with an IRB representative too. If the ball rolls out 5m from the 22m and then rolls of its own accord into the 22m area – albeit outside the field of play – and is then picked up and thrown in by the defender, there will be a gain in ground from the subsequent kick.

http://www.sareferees.co.za/news/ref_news/1868402.htm

 

[OB..]

As I have said before, I find the SA stance rather weird. The 2009 Law book makes it clear the 22 area does not extend outside the field of play. If the ball crosses the touch line outside the 22, it was at no stage inside the 22 before going into touch. Moreover, how do you judge if it has gone past the (virtual) 22m line - particularly given the law about a rolling versus a stationary ball. Their view also encourages kicking for touch.

 

[chopper15]

It has also been pointed out that the ELV required the immediate opponent to the thrower at a line-out to be at least 2 metres for the line of touch. The

2009 law book says specifically 2 metres. A slip, or deliberate?

http://www.rugbyrefs.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8013

 

[chopper15]

As far as rolling past the 22 is concerned there’s no law applicable.

Ironically the ball route in the new diagram illustrates this perfectly ie. http://www.irb.com/mm/Document/LawsRegs/0/IRBLaws2009ENlores_7685.pdf.

Law 19.1 (g) specifically refers to ball movement in the FoP so shouldn't be referred to for clarification,

19.1 (g) Ball put into a player’s 22 by the opposition. When the ball is put into a team’s 22 by the opposition, without having touched (or been touched by) a player of the defending team before crossing the 22 and the ball is then kicked into touch by the defending team, the throw-in is where the ball went into touch.

Let’s face it, isn’t it about time some body or even an individual asks the law lords for clarification. The IRB has known about this nearly as long as the ELVs were introduced and should’ve been prompted by the NH/SH split.

 

[OB..]

As far as rolling past the 22 is concerned there’s no law applicable.

Ironically the ball route in the new diagram illustrates this perfectly

If you are referring to the diagram on p 115, it relates only to where a QT can be taken from. It does not say anything about gain in ground from a subsequent kick.

 

[chopper15]

If you are referring to the diagram on p 115, it relates only to where a QT can be taken from. It does not say anything about gain in ground from a subsequent kick.

I referred to it just to illustrate the route of the ball in question, OB. :hap:

 

[DrSTU]

I shall refer this to the powers that be and return with an answer

 

[Phil E]

I shall refer this to the powers that be and return with an answer

You mean you're going to ask Arnold!

 

[OB..]

I raised the question at this evening's meeting. The ruling in the UK is that what counts is where the ball crossed the touchline.

 

[DrSTU]

I raised the question at this evening's meeting. The ruling in the UK is that what counts is where the ball crossed the touchline.

So the same as SA then?

Ball kicked and goes into touch 25m from try line, taken back across 22m line and QT taken. Ball kicked out so a gain in ground since the ball crossed the touchline 25m out or no gain in ground because it crossed 25m out.

The reference reads both ways, particular to the ball going into touch originally and the the ball crossing the line for the QT.

 

[chopper15]

I raised the question at this evening's meeting. The ruling in the UK is that what counts is where the ball crossed the touchline.

Knowing what Kaplan's and the SH interpretation is why are all the big boys up here so perverse 'bout asking the IRB ?