No Winners, No Losers.

[Donal1988]

The IRFU have introduced a non competitive elemenent upto and including U12 rugby. I dont have a link but basically the concept is something similar like the Ajax football academy introduced where there is no "winner" and no "losers" at festivals and competitions.

It reckons the tournaments should see everyone getting involved and having fun rather than focusing on only one team winning a trophy especially due to the fact it is a childrens game.

But is it a good idea or just stupid?

Do you think people are more likely to play fair if there's no chance of winning? Or is there no point in sport without competition?

Would this help numbers in rugby to grow as children dont get put off by losing? Or do you think that a competitive element and teaching kids about winning and losing is important.

 

[dave_clark]

eh? how does that work?

clubs will find some way of declaring a winner, even if it is unofficial.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Hmmmm!:chin:

View attachment 933

 

[Donal1988]

Dave there will still be "moral" victories. Teams and players will know amongst themselves but there is no score kept and no trophy, medals (maybe one for every player), runners-up etc.

 

[Dixie]

While I feel that a competitive element is important (nay, vital) in children's sport, I can see the justification for a non-competitive tournament - particularly for those teams servicing those players new to the game, or the simply not-very-good.

For me, the main problem with competition at this age group lies with the coaches. They want to win, and they want their teams to win, so they marginalise the less able (includig the sporty but inexperienced). A tournament such as this may well overcome the coach's competitive instincts, such that the lesser players get a crack at tournament rugby.

However, if this became the only means of tournament expression in Ireland, I'd expect to see a significant increase in touring opportunitites to the North (I assume RFU regulations hold sway in the six counties?).

 

[Donal1988]

Dixie - why would RFU directions hold sway in Northern Ireland. There is no such thing as Britain in rugby. RFU doesnt govern Wales or Scotland.

IRFU is whole island and the non competitve element is I think in fact being trialled in Ulster first.

 

[dave_clark]

there are a couple of B team tournaments round here in Essex (and I suspect other counties too), which are also open to smaller clubs A teams. I guess that clubs who have been known to cheat previously by putting their best players in don't get invited back.

seems to work fairly well from what i understand.

 

[Donal1988]

Dave most of Ireland is rural really and rugby teams in most areas (outside of hotbeds like Limerick, Belfast, Dublin and Cork) are very few and far between. Large clubs might have a B team or C team but realisitcally there are lots of clubs dotted about the place. Rugby remains 2nd best to the GAA and soccer in some areas.

Such an idea would have been welcome if possible.

 

[Dixie]

Dixie - why would RFU directions hold sway in Northern Ireland. There is no such thing as Britain in rugby. RFU doesnt govern Wales or Scotland.

IRFU is whole island and the non competitve element is I think in fact being trialled in Ulster first.

Sorry Donal -simple ignorance on my part. I dare say if I'd thought longer about it, I'd have come up with the solution.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I think that's pretty much the same in Junior Soccer and RL Where I live.
There are no published leagues and no big trophy at the end of the season untill you get to U12.
O course the kids know who are the best teams and who has remained unbeten so in reality the no winners and losers does not exist.

 

[Dickie E]

I think that's pretty much the same in Junior Soccer and RL Where I live.
There are no published leagues and no big trophy at the end of the season untill you get to U12.
O course the kids know who are the best teams and who has remained unbeten so in reality the no winners and losers does not exist.

ditto here

 

[baftabill]

3 points

1. Leagues for kids are a disaster. Football in London starts at some stupid age, 8 I think. pretty much everyone I know has quit (coaches and kids) and the practice-league match-practice routine, and the resulting attitude, was, I think, a big factor. We are hugely enjoying Middlesex herts league - U13-Colts, but it would have been wrong before.

2. What is wrong with a tournament?? Maybe we've won too many, but we used to live for them.

3. Football tournament U9.
9-year-old "Who won?"
Adult "No one wins, you all get a medal for taking part"
9-year-old "But we won all our games, so we won didn't we?"
Adult "yes".

I think its actually patronising to kids to pretend "no-one won"
In fact, I think it's really wrong, as it demonstrates adults lie to you,
because if you scored more points than the opposition you know that's winning.

I also think telling a kid you 'don't care who wins or loses,' you 'just want them to have fun', is a patronsing lie, if, and you'll have to work hard to convince me otherwise, you do care.

Tell them the truth - winning is more fun than losing.
They were better than you. You played well, but you got beat.
They might respect you for it.

 

[DrSTU]

I hate this no winning crap. There will be winners in life and there will be losers. Stop trying to deny the fat that at some point everyone will experience the agony of defeat and the thrill of victory. Both serve to stimulate you to try harder next time, who wants to lose again! Everyone wants to be the best around.

My nephew's football league has trophies for bloody everything and all the kids know which are the best teams around (his, 'cause they just won the cup ).

There are winners an losers, I wish these people would just accept it. Where does the stimulus lie for the child that starts playing and "wins" a tournament despite losing all the games?

 

[Big J]

An exactly how does this prepare kids for life??

There are winners and losers in everything, I hate this namby pamby view all the Liberal PC kn*bs in charge have thats its just the taking part that counts...no it isnt.

Where's the sense of achievement, team spirit, drive and determination.

Jesus we wont need refs soon.............:biggrin:

 

[Phil E]

A lot of it depends on the age of the kids. I think the argument for this is that, if kids are in a team that consistently fails to win anything they will either give up and go to another sport or move to another more successful club.

Whichever route they take rugby and/or rugby clubs lose out.

Maybe that is the philosophy behind it?






Please note, the views given are not necessarily those of the author!

 

[OB..]

Jesus we wont need refs soon.............:biggrin:

1871 Law 59
The Captains of the respective side shall be the sole Arbiters of all disputes.

 

[OB..]

I think the crucial thing is to try and get kids enjoying it even if they lose.

Watch kids at play. Most of their games involve winners and losers. Even in apparently non-competitive activities like two kids twirling a skipping rope, everybody knows who is best at the actual skipping.

When I come across a teacher who is against winning and losing, I simply ask how they got their job.

The problems arise when some people put excessive emphasis on winning (at all costs, Dean Richards?).

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

A lot of it depends on the age of the kids. I think the argument for this is that, if kids are in a team that consistently fails to win anything they will either give up and go to another sport or move to another more successful club.

Whichever route they take rugby and/or rugby clubs lose out.

Maybe that is the philosophy behind it?






Please note, the views given are not necessarily those of the author!

http://www.cumberland-news.co.uk/sp...hree_year_losing_run_1_610524?referrerPath=me

Not all kids give up or have parents who are medal hunters

 

[Adam]

Winning and losing is a vital part of Primary age children. This is shown in the classroom when having spelling tests, and the people who get full marks (or better than normal) are rewarded. If you apply the 'no winners, no losers' principle to the spelling test, everyone would get a reward, and there would be no need to try. It is the failures in life which makes us better. I never won anything in sport, but it only made me want to improve (especially as my sisters win everything).

Competition makes children want to win and achieve. In the case of a donkey, you need to dangle the carrot, in order for them to move towards the reward.

Youth sport principally teaches children moral principles. Respect, endeavour and being competitive are to name a few. Winning and losing are vital in life, from the rewards you get at school, gaining positions and becoming the best at what you do.

Therefore, as winning and losing, respect and endeavour, right and wrong are part of life; sport should reflect this to better equip young people for their later life.

 

[barker14610]

The kids always know who won. Sports do prepare you for life. Generally, the players/ teams that work well together, practice hard and stay focused win. Just like adults in the work force. There are no "participation" ribbons for life.