Tackler Offsides?

[dskit]

I ref youth mostly so this applies to when the game gets a bit messy:

In open play, that is, well after a ruck has broken, say its a bad pass and the ball gets kicked around a bit on the ground all within a close area. Ball is picked up and a defending tackler that was in front of the ball then tackles the ball carrier. Is he offside?

All the laws (section 10) I read seem to be more applicable to kicks down field, which I understand.

1) A player is offside in open play if that player is in front of a team-mate who is carrying the ball or who last played it. An offside player must not interfere with play. This includes:
a Playing the ball.
b Tackling the ball-carrier.

I also understand this:
9) A player who is offside at a ruck, maul, scrum or lineout remains offside, even after the ruck, maul, scrum or lineout has ended.

Yes, if you are camped out offside during a ruck and the ball is out, you can't make a tackle unless you get on the other side of the ball.

My question is around the loose play when things are not a clean progression from a ruck or maul.

And where does the whole "no offsides in open play" that seems to ring in the back of my brain come from? Is that outdated?

 

[Decorily]

It can be very difficult to accurately referee this type of scenario.

Sometimes it may be necessary to blow it up and revert to a scrum restart while explaining to players that it was just a mess.
Technically it may be a penalty offence for a player to play the ball while they are ahead of their teammate who last played the ball but sometimes it may be fairer to describe it as accidental offside....scrum restart.

 

[chbg]

In open play, only team-mates of the ball carrier/last person to play the ball can be offside. If "the ball is being kicked around a bit on the ground" then the team potentially off-side is changing frequently, perhaps as often as each kick. But at each kick, they are put back onside: 10.7.b.iii (offside player can be put onside when: ... an opponent of that player: ... Kicks the ball)!

As picking up the ball (from an opponent's kick-on-the-ground) (and presumably not running with it for 5m) does not put an offside player onside, then, strictly, the tackler can be penalised for being offside. But you would want it to be a really clear situation, and easily explainable at the time. Yes you wish to encourage young players to put an end to "a bit messy" play by getting the ball in their hands, but equally not to stop competition for the ball if they do not understand how they can compete.

"No offside in open play" means that there is no offside line across the field due to the ongoing phase of play, therefore the opposition cannot be offside. Teammates of the ball carrier/last person to play the ball certainly can be offside.

 

[Stu10]

@dskit I'm curious where you are and what age group you are dealing with. In England players cannot kick the ball on the ground until u13... In my experience, I've not often encountered rugby ball pinball at u13 or older.

 

[Decorily]

@dskit ...... In my experience, I've not often encountered rugby ball pinball at u13 or older.

Really?

 

[didds]

note its not just kicking the ball where the OP's scenario may be of interest - knocks ons, ball hitting shins/chests/heads/heels/calves/thighs etc

 

[Phil E]

I ref youth mostly so this applies to when the game gets a bit messy:

In open play, that is, well after a ruck has broken, say its a bad pass and the ball gets kicked around a bit on the ground all within a close area. Ball is picked up and a defending tackler that was in front of the ball then tackles the ball carrier. Is he offside?

1. Basically in open play you cannot be offside if your team don't have the ball.
2. If your team do have the ball you are offside if in front of the ball or the past player on your side to touch it.

However we then introduce offside lines at tackles, rucks, etc.

If your team don't have the ball you are offside if in front of those offside lines, commonly called lazy runners.
But once we get back into open play again (the ball has been carried 5m, passed or kicked) we are back to Point 1 & 2

There are a few nuances and special situations around the 10m law and a ball being touched in flight, but as a rule of thumb the above applies.

 

[Stu10]

Really?

Maybe it's just the teams that I referee, but there is typically 1 or maybe 2 fly hack attempts to get the ball down field, but if that doesn't work then someone typically gets a body on the ball. I find u13 is the age that they start being more purposeful on the pitch, and is a big step up from u12.