Offside after a kick Bath vs Gloucester

[Nilo]

So, if you are 20m away, and offside and never put onside, and the BC comes to you and you tackle the BC... are you interfering with play ?

You are onside in this situation, because if you stay 20m away and then the player comes to you, they will have travelled >5m and therefore you are back onside.

 

[didds]

You are onside in this situation, because if you stay 20m away and then the player comes to you, they will have travelled >5m and therefore you are back onside.

in excactly the same way that you are if you are 10.00000001 m away you mean ?

 

[Locke]

For me, the distance is fine. Based on the exploit shown in this thread. I’d just like have offside players required to be actively retiring in all situations, not just 10m rule situations.

 

[Locke]

Some RTE discussion on this topic:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1754607076620324934

 

[Balones]

It is being reviewed by WR so we will just have to be patient.

 

[Phil E]

Some RTE discussion on this topic:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1754607076620324934

The last comment in that video just highlights how little commentators know about refereeing and what we are trying to facilitate.

To save you listening to it all the chap on the left says (roughly) referees shouldn't be "coaching" (his words) players, if a player is going to give away a penalty, referees should let them and then penalise them. If a player is about to commit a penalty referees should shut up and let them do it.

Imagine if that happened? Within one match there would be an outcry from commentators about the high number of penalties

 

[didds]

I have a lot of sympathy with that commentators call wrt "coaching" - especially at the pro end where the laws are a player's bread and butter for his/her chosen profession (CF Highway code and HGV drivers etc).

However I entirely agree with Phil's last sentence wrt commentators!

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

my suggestions.
Law 10.4.c A player is offside if.
Was in front of a team-mate who kicked the ball and fails to retire immediately behind an onside team-mate or an imaginary line across the field 10 metres on that player’s side from where the ball is caught or lands, even if it hits a goal post or crossbar first. If this involves more than one player, then the player closest to where the ball lands or is caught is the one penalised. This is known as the 10-metre law and still applies if the ball touches or is played by an opponent but not when the kick is charged down.
Sanction: The non-offending team can choose either:

1. Penalty at the place of infringement; or
2. Scrum where the offending team last played the ball.

For me, just remove the bit in Blue and that may help. Won't stop the kick tennis but will prevent players in front of the kicker being involved with play until "properly" put on side

7. Other than under Law 10.4c, an offside player can be put onside when:
a)An onside team-mate of that player moves past the offside player and is within or has re-entered the playing area.
b)An opponent of that player:

1. Carries the ball five metres; or
2. Passes the ball; or
3. Kicks the ball; or
4. Intentionally touches the ball without gaining possession of it.

I would completeley remove Law 7b

 

[Phil E]

If everyone in front of the kicker had to run back, at the same time as onside players ran forward, it would make it very easy to manage for us referees.

 

[didds]

and if the kicker was the last player ie all team mates in front, and was tackled as (s)he kicks... there is no body available to play them onside.

so that 10m line above would be vital!

 

[Locke]

and if the kicker was the last player ie all team mates in front, and was tackled as (s)he kicks... there is no body available to play them onside.

so that 10m line above would be vital!

A good point I hadn’t thought of before. But a player could still retreat behind the kicker and then advance to put the rest of the team onside. And if the rest are also retreating, as they should be under this proposed version of the law, the situation should sort itself out fairly quickly?

 

[didds]

of course - but that next nearest teammate could be 20+ metres away of course.

 

[Phil E]

of course - but that next nearest teammate could be 20+ metres away of course.

Which might have the unintended plus of stopping the aimless kicking?

 

[didds]

Which might have the unintended plus of stopping the aimless kicking?

as opposed to being caught in possession with no support?

yeah - that would work...

 

[Phil E]

as opposed to being caught in possession with no support?

yeah - that would work...

Its a thinking game

 

[BikingBud]

a myriad of choperesque style scenarios spring to mind.

It was a moot point, intended to draw out the comparisons between 10m and 30m away.

So we have ascertained that 10m is not far enough, 30m is far enough.


So, if you are 20m away, and offside and never put onside, and the BC comes to you and you tackle the BC... are you interfering with play ?

You are onside in this situation, because if you stay 20m away and then the player comes to you, they will have travelled >5m and therefore you are back onside.

As the law includes an OR, any of the conditions will lead to a transgression.

4. An offside player may be penalised, if that player:
a. Interferes with play; or

No real need to go any further or waste time discussing the 10m rule.

If the catcher decides to run where the offside player is they should expect to progress without "interference" sub clauses 4.b and 4.c cannot countermand the transgression committed by 4.a.

That is way the law is written and is the only logical position.

Unfortunately, illogical people then exploit the laws and get upset when they are clearly not complying with the way the law is written but get pinged.

Another anomaly of showcase rugby.

 

[tim White]

For the sake of the game from top to bottom MAKE IT SIMPLE!

Have I forgotten something or did you not always have to retire if you were in front of the kicker until you were put onside by them or another onside player ?????

 

[Dickie E]

If everyone in front of the kicker had to run back, at the same time as onside players ran forward, it would make it very easy to manage for us referees.

How would you deal with players still in scrum/ruck as the ball sails over their heads?

 

[Dickie E]

For the sake of the game from top to bottom MAKE IT SIMPLE!

Have I forgotten something or did you not always have to retire if you were in front of the kicker until you were put onside by them or another onside player ?????

I think you've forgotten something. I have no memory of players needing to retire (unless <10m)

 

[Balones]

For the sake of the game from top to bottom MAKE IT SIMPLE!

Have I forgotten something or did you not always have to retire if you were in front of the kicker until you were put onside by them or another onside player ?????

That’s how I played my rugby in my youth.