[Ruck] All opposition players leaving the ruck

[HappyScrummie]

Hi there,

I saw this clip of David Pocock being smart and recognising that no ruck (and thus no offside line) had formed, therefore positioning himself right behind the Irish scrum half to intercept a pass.

http://www.the42.ie/david-pocock-no-ruck-no-offside-laws-3105859-Nov2016/

It made me wonder - imagine a different scenario where some of the Australians had initially formed a ruck, but then withdrawn to just behind it, leaving just Irish players standing where the ruck had been but no longer making physical contact with any Aussies. Assume that the ball has remained at the back this whole time.

Would that mean there was no longer a ruck, allowing Pocock to then rush up once his teammates had pulled out of the ruck? Or does the offside line apply until the ball is next played from where the ruck was initially formed?

Any thoughts very welcome - I may be missing a very obvious point here...!

 

[Elpablo73]

HappyScrummie,

Once a ruck has formed, it remains a ruck until there is a successful end to it (16.6. A ruck ends successfully when the ball leaves the ruck, or when the ball is on or over the goal line.) So the offside lines will still exist and Pocock must stay where he is. :nono:

 

[Taff]

Good question Happy Scrummie.

If all players from the same team team leave a Maul, the maul continues, thanks to 17.4(f)

17.4(f) When players of the team who are not in possession of the ball in the maul voluntarily leave the maul such that there are no players of that team left in the maul, the maul may continue and there are two offside lines. The offside line for the team in possession runs through the hindmost foot of the hindmost player in the maul and for the team not in possession it is a line that runs through the foremost foot of the foremost player of the team in possession at the maul.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Strangely, there is no similar wording for Rucks, even though a lot of the other wording is near identical.

Personally I reckon WR will change the Ruck law in time to make it consistent with the Maul law.

 

[Skids]

It happened last weekend in the European Champions Cup but I can't remember which match. Ref let play continue.

 

[DocY]

HappyScrummie,

Once a ruck has formed, it remains a ruck until there is a successful end to it (16.6. A ruck ends successfully when the ball leaves the ruck, or when the ball is on or over the goal line.) So the offside lines will still exist and Pocock must stay where he is. :nono:

This.

It's not an offence to leave the ruck, but the ruck doesn't end.

I expect the omission Taff mentions is accidental, but even if not, it's not a successful end to a ruck, so offside lines must still apply.

As a rule of thumb, if you think something is a bit of a dick move, you're probably justified in not allowing it.

 

[dickell]

Nathan Hughes for Wasps v Toulouse. Wasps had not made contact to form a maul so there were no offside lines.

 

[Paule23]

I read this a while ago but had to come back, I love that quote and is certainly going to be my guiding principle in all areas of my local fe from now.

 

[Taff]

... I expect the omission Taff mentions is accidental ....

I'm not so sure it is accidental DocY. What if WR meant it to be like that? :chin:

Given that the Ruck and Maul laws are so similar (no exaggeration, but you could copy and paste the bulk of it from one section to the other) I struggle to believe that the wording was included in one and not the other. I assumed that all players from one team leaving a Ruck didn't mean the end of a Ruck, so I was surprised the wording was different. Even so, in my own mind I would have treated both the same and I think most players and coaches would look at it that way too.

 

[HappyScrummie]

Thank you all - that's cleared it up nicely :smile:

 

[Paule23]

I had a couple of instances of this at the weekend, and the player was most upset he got penalised for offside. He was right when he went for the ball there were non of his team in the ruck, but he didn't really get the concept that a ruck had formed and even if his players left it was still the same ruck with the same offside lines.

 

[DocY]

I'm not so sure it is accidental DocY. What if WR meant it to be like that? :chin:

You could well be right - second guessing what WR actually mean is a bit of a fool's errand