AR penalty report AFTER final whistle?

[Mr.Christopher]

Hi guys,

Interesting question from a colleague that I wanted feedback on.

Here's the scenario:
You're working a game, Red vs Blue, with 2 ARs... but you don't have radios. Its the end of the match, and blue knocks the ball on. As time has expired, referee signals the Knock On, then blows his whistle to signal Full Time.

Following the whistle, one of the ARs comes running over, indicating that he had flagged Foul Play by Red while play was still going on.

Here's the question.... do you go back to the report and award the penalty and continue to play until the ball becomes Dead (in accordance to 5.7e)... or is the game over due to the final whistle, regardless of what the AR reported?


If the game is settled and the penalty wouldn't matter (more than 7 points between teams, etc) then it really wouldn't matter.... but if Blue is on the red 5m line and trailing by 2 points.... that's a rough call to make.

What would you guys do?

 

[crossref]

I think that once the final whistle has blown, there's no going back. The game has ended.
this is more for practical reasons than anything else, lots of people may have come on the pitch, including subs/coaches/waterboys. By the time the AR has rushed over the teams may have given eachother three cheers, the groundsman could even hav taken down some flags and padding. I don't see how you can credibly re-start.

[lesson for the ref : before blowing final whistle, check with the ARs]

 

[chbg]

Although Law 6.A.5 allows the referee to alter a decision when the AR has raised a flag to indicate an act of foul play, the practicalities of doing so after the Final whistle are probably quite difficult. However ... in a close match with a lot at stake, and the team offended against are aware of the foul play, and so are probably helping to draw the referee's attention to the AR, then the referee would undoubtedly be correct to use 6.A.5 and return to the penalty, using his management skills and a thick skin ...

I would certainly not allow 'Time is up' to prevent a Red Card Report if it was so warranted.

 

[OB..]

I think that once the final whistle has blown, there's no going back. The game has ended.
this is more for practical reasons than anything else, lots of people may have come on the pitch, including subs/coaches/waterboys. By the time the AR has rushed over the teams may have given eachother three cheers, the groundsman could even hav taken down some flags and padding. I don't see how you can credibly re-start.

Boy do they move fast in your part of the world!

Law 6.A.6 specifically allows the referee to alter a decision if an AR reports foul play. I see no reason why that should not apply to the "final" whistle. I have seen something similar happen when a team knew it was "last play" and assumed the whistle for a penalty was for no side. The referee managed to get them to play out the penalty.

[lesson for the ref : before blowing final whistle, check with the ARs][/QUOTE]Agreed.

 

[chrismtl]

Did this actually happen in a match here?

I think that this should cover you Chris

[LAWS]6.A.6 The referee may alter a decision when an assistant referee has raised the flag to signal touch or an act of foul play.[/LAWS]

They don't limit or define the decision, so I don't see how blowing for the end of match can't be considered one of those decisions. In that case, why not go back and play the RC/YC and penalty.

Now it might not look too good since the only time we get proper AR's is for big matches with spectators, so as they said, take a quick look to the AR's before you blow for the end of the match. Then again, it won't affect you since you have radios...

 

[Mr.Christopher]

Did this actually happen in a match here?

Nope... Matt Côté asked me a question and I wanted to double check.

I think that this should cover you Chris
[LAWS]6.A.6 The referee may alter a decision when an assistant referee has raised the flag to signal touch or an act of foul play.[/LAWS]

I know that I may alter a decision based on an AR report... but that only happens during the course of a match. Blowing a final whistle signals the end of the match, so I wasn't sure if I could go back once the FINAL whistle was blown.

Hopefully, the ref would check with his ARs prior to blowing the whistle in a game with a team of 3... and radios mean that the foul play should have been communicated immediately and the ref already playing advantage.

"What is Right" means that you're going back for the ARs call.... I'm looking for the indication for "What is LAW". I knew about 6.A.6, but it doesn't cover this exact case and I was wondering if there was a clarification posted at some point that i've missed.

 

[crossref]

If you think you can restart the game after the whistle has gone -- how long after? can you restart after a minute has passed? two minutes? five minutes ? when's the cut off?

You might say there is no specific cut off - it's just a quesiton of practicality

But I think the answer is : the cut off is when you blow the whistle for full time.

The window for checking with ARs, discovering foul play, correcting decision, issuing cards etc - is between the two whistles

- blow the whistle to stop game
- time to check watch, check ARs, establish that the game is over
- blow for no side.
- the game is now, actually, over

 

[OB..]

You might say there is no specific cut off - it's just a question of practicality

I think that is the best answer. There is no clear point of law. I don't see why the game should end on a referee's error of that type, if the situation can be recovered.

 

[crossref]

Oddly enough this question has been answered by WorldRugby
http://laws.worldrugby.org/index.php?domain=10&year=2015&clarification=1013

the answer is yes, restart.

[LAWS]If the assistant referee has flagged for foul play/deliberate infringement and it takes place before the end of the match, then the referee may restart the match with a penalty kick, free kick or mark, etc. If the flag was raised after the final whistle or for non-foul play/deliberate infringement, then the game is over.[/LAWS]

[But what a fiasco in Argentina! How did the ref come to blow the whistle for full time
- The ref must have been miked up so the AR must have told him there is a PK offence.
- Also presumably someone else was keeping time, so two people decided time was up]

 

[Browner]

"Deliberate" ...:wtf:
Seconds out, round 3 ............ Cue the debate on whether an infringement is/not deliberate v intentional within foul play law ....:deadhorse:

 

[crossref]

I think they mean any PK offence ...