Aus Rugby 22-93

The Fat


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Does Hooper & Folau put fans in the seats?

Using Hooper and Folau as examples of what the top players are paid in comparison to what is spent on junior development.
AFL spend approximately $50m on developing their game.
Rugby Union is now the No. 4 code of football in Australia with some of the highest paid players out of those 4 codes. Women's AFL is drawing bigger crowds than most Super Rugby games.
My point is that the relatively small income base is disproportionately spread between the elite end and development end of the game.
At some point in time RA must re-evaluate or within a few short years there will be no "next Hooper" or "next Folau"
 

Camquin

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Do what the rfu do and bring in someone from New Zealand or Rugby League - it works so well.
 

damo


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Do what the rfu do and bring in someone from New Zealand or Rugby League - it works so well.

What about bringing in a kiwi CEO from a rugby league club?

Can't fail to work.
 

The Fat


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What about bringing in a kiwi CEO from a rugby league club?

Can't fail to work.

I'm aware of such a person damo :wink: and said person allegedly made the comment, when given the position, that said person would like to one day run NZRU. You could be next!!!

On a serious note, I'd just like to see some show of strong leadership before I completely write her off. My fear is that other's are standing in the shadows and pulling the strings.
 

menace


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Do we have a CEO??? When did that happen?:sarc::sarc::sarc::sarc::sarc::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 

Ian_Cook


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RA and Waratahs talking today about re-signing Hooper for 5 years at $1m a season. Also want to lock Folau in for a long term contract which would have to be around the same value as Hooper's contract. Then NSWRU boss announces NSWRU made a profit in 2017 of $14k. Such contracts, where Wallabies or potential Wallabies are concerned, are subsidised by RA.
To put this into some perspective, RA will spend about the same amount of money on their top 6 players (@ a contract top up of around $500k per player) as they will spend on grassroots rugby in 2018

This is sheer madness, but its a madness that goes right back to when the ARU first started paying big money for has-been RL players such as Wendell Sailor, Matt Rodgers and Lote Tuquiri, instead of putting that big money into the base of the game.

AR have been looking for this non-existent quick fix of buying in ready-made talent for about 15 years. In the beginning, it paid off because of the 2003 RWC and because the Wallabies got winning results, but eventually, as the bought in talent retired and moved on, the money was spent, the shine wore off, and there was nothing left for the base of the game and as a result, the amount of new talent coming through diminished. Its like growing a prize, specimen tree; it doesn't matter how much fancy pruning and expensive leaf shine you use to make the tree look good, if you don't water the roots, the tree will eventually die. If they had put all the money they spent on this quick fix on the slow fix 15 years ago... development of players through academies, schools and a national club rugby competition, they would have been no worse off than they are now, and that investment would be paying dividends.

NZRU spends a lot of money on its National Provincial Championship, the Mitre 10 Cup. The competition appears as a “cost” on their books, and while it runs at a total loss, the benefits they draw from it in terms of player development cannot be overstated. The NZRU knows and understands that the money spent is an investment in the future of NZ rugby. It is the “shop window”, the “breeding ground” , the “conveyor belt” (choose your own idiom) for new and emerging talent, from which Super Rugby coaches pick their stars of the future.

As for Folau, RA needs to cut him loose after his homophobic, anti-gay rantings. A player who did that in this country would find themselves the subject of public protests. Folau is a liability to an organisation that cannot afford to alienate itself from ANY section of the community.
 

Dickie E


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As for Folau, RA needs to cut him loose after his homophobic, anti-gay rantings. A player who did that in this country would find themselves the subject of public protests. Folau is a liability to an organisation that cannot afford to alienate itself from ANY section of the community.

we have this thing called free speech in Australia despite Qantas' efforts to suppress it.

Drew Mitchell sums it up well:

“The most disappointing thing I think in the last few weeks with other things that have happened outside of our sport is everyone has an opinion and people will attack those that don’t have the same opinion,” Mitchell said.

“We just have to appreciate this is Izzy’s opinion and he’s entitled to it, whether you like it or not.

“He’s as much entitled to his opinion as you are with yours."
 
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Ian_Cook


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we have this thing called free speech in Australia despite Qantas' efforts to suppress it.

Drew Mitchell sums it up well:

“The most disappointing thing I think in the last few weeks with other things that have happened outside of our sport is everyone has an opinion and people will attack those that don’t have the same opinion,” Mitchell said.

“We just have to appreciate this is Izzy’s opinion and he’s entitled to it, whether you like it or not.

“He’s as much entitled to his opinion as you are with yours."

People misunderstand what "Free Speech" really is. They think its absolute, and that you can say what you like, when you like and where you like, and your speech is totally unrestricted. This is not the case, free speech is NOT absolute. Free speech has never meant saying whatever you like and being protected from the resulting consequences. Free speech means the "the Government" cannot suppress what you say, but it doesn't mean you are free to say anything you want.

Can you to make death threats against others without there being consequences?
Can you incite others to take violent action without there being consequences?
Can you yell "FIRE" in a crowded theatre without there being consequences?
Can you make a false 111 emergency call without there being consequences?
Can you make a false complaint to Police without there being consequences?

The answer to all of these is, of course, no. All these things are examples of speech that is restricted. While you are entitled to a certain amount of free speech, your employer is also entitled to restrict you in what you say. For example, most companies have a clause in their employment contracts which forbid you to speak publicly against company policy, if you do, there will be consequences that could include being fired. When I was in the RNZAF, we were forbidden to speak to the press or any media about anything to do the armed forces. The consequences for disobeying this order would depend on what we said; it could be anything between a reprimand and a Court Martial and cashiering.

You might want to read this, you will find that, even in Australia, you are not as free to say what you please as you might think you are

https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/life/...hat-does-freedom-speech-really-mean-australia

There’s been a lot of talk about free speech lately; about what it means, whether there should be restrictions and who benefits most from free speech. But do Australians already have freedom of speech? And if so, what does that really mean, to our day-to-day lives, legally? Despite all the debate in the past two years about free speech, it’s not a right that's protected under our constitution. In fact, the only social freedom that’s guaranteed is religion. Australia doesn’t have a bill of rights, which is where free speech usually gets defined and protected in most western democracies. It’s neither incorporated in any federal legislation.


ETA

Folau's rantings could well be construed as illegal under Australia's "Hate Speech" Laws

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech_laws_in_Australia

Did you know that Holocaust Denial in Australia is illegal under Australia's "Racial Discrimination Act 1975". I didn't until I just read it!
 
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Dickie E


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it would be interesting to hear the views of the key stakeholders in Australian rugby: the Samoan, Tongan, Fijiian & other Polynesian communities. Not just about the Folau incident, but about how to grow & nurture rugby in Australia.

But, as the "foot soldiers" of our sport, I doubt our diversity principles extend as far as asking them. The white fella, as usual, knows best.
 

SimonSmith


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we have this thing called free speech in Australia despite Qantas' efforts to suppress it.

Drew Mitchell sums it up well:

“The most disappointing thing I think in the last few weeks with other things that have happened outside of our sport is everyone has an opinion and people will attack those that don’t have the same opinion,” Mitchell said.

“We just have to appreciate this is Izzy’s opinion and he’s entitled to it, whether you like it or not.

“He’s as much entitled to his opinion as you are with yours."

He is indeed entitled to his opinion, and to say it.
That does not protect him from people having an opinion about him and his opinion and vocalizing it. THAT'S how free speech works.

He's a homophobic shit.
 

damo


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I'm aware of such a person damo :wink: and said person allegedly made the comment, when given the position, that said person would like to one day run NZRU. You could be next!!!

On a serious note, I'd just like to see some show of strong leadership before I completely write her off. My fear is that other's are standing in the shadows and pulling the strings.

I haven't seen any reason to write her off yet. She's in a no win situation with the Folau incident. She would be criticized no matter what she did with him.

I think there is a real roy at the top of the AR and it will take a while to sort out.
 

The Fat


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I haven't seen any reason to write her off yet. She's in a no win situation with the Folau incident. She would be criticized no matter what she did with him.

I think there is a real roy at the top of the AR and it will take a while to sort out.

I agree.
The problems have been created by going for the short term quick fix over and over. No-one at Admin/Board level is willing to face the reality and publicly state that it will take a re-build over a number of years to get the system on track. Cheika kept telling the Aussie rugby fans to be patient between the 2011 & 2015 RWCs and that getting a good result at the 2015 RWC would take a couple of years as, at the time, the Wallabies and most Super franchises were playing ordinary rugby. The fans suffered for 4 years to get some short term joy at the 2015 RWC. And so we went into the same cycle again after that RWC. "Hang in there fans, only four more years of sh!t rugby and we'll give you six weeks of hope in 2019". You can't expect people to keep paying premium prices for tickets between RWCs and hope that people keep coming to Super Rugby and Wallabies matches on a promise that we'll do well at the next RWC. There are more ways to enjoy spending your weekly pay.
The current model is doing three fifths of FA towards building a solid and sustainable base
 

The Fat


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Well our “Top” team couldn’t manage to get a win over the Kiwis “Bottom “ side at home at the weekend but the never fear, there is real potential for an Aussie team to get a win next weekend. The Brumbies play the Rebels. My prediction is a 3 All draw
 

menace


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Well our “Top” team couldn’t manage to get a win over the Kiwis “Bottom “ side at home at the weekend but the never fear, there is real potential for an Aussie team to get a win next weekend. The Brumbies play the Rebels. My prediction is a 3 All draw

Brumbies can't win a chook raffle. They dont even know where to buy a ticket at the moment. Going to be some lean years I suspect.
 

The Fat


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Brumbies can't win a chook raffle. They dont even know where to buy a ticket at the moment. Going to be some lean years I suspect.

I wonder what goes through Cheika’s mind every Sunday evening?
 

Dickie E


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I wonder what goes through Cheika’s mind every Sunday evening?

He's wondering how to convince Raelene to find the mega-bucks to poach Josh Addo-Carr
 

Dickie E


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Brumbies can't win a chook raffle. They dont even know where to buy a ticket at the moment. Going to be some lean years I suspect.

don't talk too soon. A Genia-less Rebels look pretty brittle.
 
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