Confused about Law 22.8

[bearandbu]

My confusion is the wording of “Law 22.8. Ball KICKED dead through in-goal”. Does caroming off a defender or deliberate action by a defender (for instance kicking the ball) in the try zone, which results in a kicked ball going out of bounds, constitute a “ball KICKED dead through in-goal”? If it does, then scrum or dropout is offered. If it doesn’t, then dropout only.

 

[crossref]

[LAWS]22.8 Ball kicked dead through in-goal 12
If a team kicks the ball through their opponents’ in-goal into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead ball line, except by an unsuccessful kick at goal or attempted dropped goal, the defending team has two choices:

•To have a drop-out, or
•To have a scrum at the place where the ball was kicked and they throw in.[/LAWS]

I would only offer the choice after a kick. The only other scenario I can think of where a team can put the ball all the way through the opponents' in goal is a charge down: Red #15 attempts a clearance kick from his own 5m line; blue charge the kick down and it goes through the in-goal and dead. That's just a 22m.

 

[bearandbu]

Hmmm, maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. I'll offer a scenario. Blue kicks the ball in open play. Red player in the try zone attempts to field the ball which almost certainly would have settled in the try zone, but it bounces off Reds hands across the deadball line. So, it was the action of Red that caused the ball to go into deadball territory. Does that matter? What do you offer Red team? Dropout or scrum, or just dropout.

 

[crossref]

Hmmm, maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. I'll offer a scenario. Blue kicks the ball in open play. Red player in the try zone attempts to field the ball which almost certainly would have settled in the try zone, but it bounces off Reds hands across the deadball line. So, it was the action of Red that caused the ball to go into deadball territory. Does that matter? What do you offer Red team? Dropout or scrum, or just dropout.

- if red touched it last, then red made it dead.
- so in that scenario: blue put the ball into the in goal, and then red made it dead, it's a 22m dropout.

of course
- if red (trying to field the ball) had knocked it on, then it would be a blue 5m scrum
- if red deliberately knocked it over the deadball line, then PK blue. (and if blue were anywhere near the ball then questions of PT and YCs !)

 

[Phil E]

bearandbu

For a team to get the scrum back option, the ball has to go through in-goal and dead, without touching anyone after leaving the kickers boot.

If the ball goes into in-goal and then hits a defender before going dead, then they get the 22 drop out only, no options. Attacker put the ball into in-goal and defender (by touching it) made it dead.

Remember, what's important is WHO put the ball into in-goal.

 

[bearandbu]

bearandbu

For a team to get the scrum back option, the ball has to go through in-goal and dead, without touching anyone after leaving the kickers boot.

If the ball goes into in-goal and then hits a defender before going dead, then they get the 22 drop out only, no options. Attacker put the ball into in-goal and defender (by touching it) made it dead.

Remember, what's important is WHO put the ball into in-goal.

Thanks so much. Had this happen a while back as AR. Center ref offered scrum. I was uncertain and kept my mouth shut, but was thinking dropout only.

 

[Dickie E]

Remember, too, that from a kick off it is a bit different. Defender only needs to ground ball, without delay, in-goal for a 22/scrum option.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Remember, too, that from a kick off it is a bit different. Defender only needs to ground ball, without delay, in-goal for a 22/scrum option.

Yep, you'll find that in Law 13.9 not Law 22

And not just to a kick-off. A 22m dropout that runs the length of the field untouched and through the DBL or grounded without delay by a defender is also a scrum option back from were it was kicked. Law 13.15

 

[chbg]

Remember, too, that from a kick off it is a bit different. Defender only needs to ground ball, without delay, in-goal for a 22/scrum option.

Receivers' scrum in the middle OR same team kick off again. 22 option doesn't come into it.

 

[Huck2Spit]

What if it is a PK( going for touch not posts) that is kicked and it goes untouched into touch in goal or over dead ball line?

 

[crossref]

Choice of 22m dropout, or scrum at mark

 

[Pegleg]

Hmmm, maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. I'll offer a scenario. Blue kicks the ball in open play. Red player in the try zone attempts to field the ball which almost certainly would have settled in the try zone, but it bounces off Reds hands across the deadball line. So, it was the action of Red that caused the ball to go into deadball territory. Does that matter? What do you offer Red team? Dropout or scrum, or just dropout.

Where does the scenario fit with Law 22.8?

22.8 Ball kicked dead through in-goal 12
If a team kicks the ball through their opponents’ in-goal into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead ball line, except by an unsuccessful kick at goal or attempted dropped goal, the defending team has two choices:

•To have a drop-out, or
•To have a scrum at the place where the ball was kicked and they throw in.