Duty to clear from the 22

[lousauce]

Just watching a match on TV and the ball is passed into the 22 by the defenders. Fullback tries a clearance kick but it is charged down and the ball goes over the dead ball line without being touched by another player. The decision was a 5m attacking scrum in line with where the ball crossed the line. How can it be an attacking scrum when the attacking team have caused the ball to go dead? Ref's comment was that the defending team had a duty to clear from the 22?
Can anyone explain the relevant law please?

 

[damo]

Where was the ball when it was charged down?

 

[lousauce]

Where was the ball when it was charged down?

I thought it was deep inside the 22 but my son reckons the full back was stood just inside the in goal area with his standing foot. Can't get the video ref to take another look as they have quite rightly gone for a pint, but I guess where the kicker was stood is the crucial point!

 

[damo]

Inside the 22

As described it sounds like the referee has made a mistake.

The determining factor on whether it is a 5m scrum or a 22m dropout is which team has put the ball into the in-goal area before it is made dead. If the ball is put there by the defending team and it goes dead then it is 5m scrum. On the other hand, if it is put there by the attacking team, and made dead then it is a 22m d.o (or possibly a scrum if it is kicked dead).

As you describe the incident, it was the attackers that put the ball into the in-goal, so it should have been a 22m. However, as always, I'd want to see the incident before I declared another referee to have made a mistake.

 

[The Fat]

The OP is a little confusing.
There is no responsibility for the defending team to clear their 22. Taking the ball back into their own 22 simply means that if they kick it directly into touch, there is no gain in ground.
Lousauce's 2nd post (post #3) then talks about the defending fullback, who I naturally assume to be the clearing kicker, to have his standing foot just inside in-goal. So now we have a situation where the defenders have not only taken the ball back into their own 22, they have actually put the ball into their own in-goal. It is difficult to see how the attacking player who charges the kick down can be anywhere other than in the field of play. Therefore the defending fullback's kick has returned the ball back into the field of play and the resulting charge down would have again put the ball into the in-goal (i.e. put there by attackers) where it then goes dead.
If I have interpreted the OP correctly, the restart should be a 22m DO and there should be no mention of any "Duty to clear from the 22". That is a ridiculous statement to make.
What game was it? We may be able to find a video.

 

[damo]

I see that Lousace has amended his post from above, which might change the situation slightly. I the kicker was in the in-goal then it is possible that the charge-down may have occurred in-goal. If so then the defenders had put the ball into the in-goal so if it become dead as a result of the charge-down without having left the in-goal, then a 5m scrum would be correct.

 

[The Fat]

I see that Lousace has amended his post from above, which might change the situation slightly. I the kicker was in the in-goal then it is possible that the charge-down may have occurred in-goal. If so then the defenders had put the ball into the in-goal so if it become dead as a result of the charge-down without having left the in-goal, then a 5m scrum would be correct.

I see your point and obviously agree with what you are saying. We need more information as the statement, "my son reckons the full back was stood just inside the in goal area with his standing foot", paints a picture that the kicking foot is outside the in-goal area and therefore any charge down following the kick must have made contact with the ball in the field of play.
More info please lousauce i.e. teams involved???

 

[RobLev]

Just watching a match on TV and the ball is passed into the 22 by the defenders. Fullback tries a clearance kick but it is charged down and the ball goes over the dead ball line without being touched by another player. The decision was a 5m attacking scrum in line with where the ball crossed the line. How can it be an attacking scrum when the attacking team have caused the ball to go dead? Ref's comment was that the defending team had a duty to clear from the 22?
Can anyone explain the relevant law please?

Waratahs v Crusaders?

If so, the pass went deep into the in-goal area, and it was charged down inside the in-goal area. Defenders put it into in-goal, so it's a 5m scrum unless they get it back out again, whoever made it dead (Law 22.11(a)):

[LAWS]When the ball touches the touch-in-goal line or the dead ball line, or touches anything or anyone beyond those lines, the ball becomes dead. If the ball was played into in-goal by the attacking team, a drop-out shall be awarded to the defending team. If the ball was played into in-goal by the defending team, a 5-metre scrum shall be awarded and the attacking team throws in the ball.[/LAWS]

The ref said words to the effect of "You put it into in-goal, it's your responsibility to get it out again before it goes dead (if you want a drop-out)".

 

[The Fat]

Waratahs v Crusaders?

If so, the pass went deep into the in-goal area, and it was charged down inside the in-goal area. Defenders put it into in-goal, so it's a 5m scrum unless they get it back out again, whoever made it dead (Law 22.11(a)):

[LAWS]When the ball touches the touch-in-goal line or the dead ball line, or touches anything or anyone beyond those lines, the ball becomes dead. If the ball was played into in-goal by the attacking team, a drop-out shall be awarded to the defending team. If the ball was played into in-goal by the defending team, a 5-metre scrum shall be awarded and the attacking team throws in the ball.[/LAWS]

The ref said words to the effect of "You put it into in-goal, it's your responsibility to get it out again before it goes dead (if you want a drop-out)".

That's the game I had in mind but the OP's talk of the 22 and the kicker (defender) having his grounded foot just inside the in-goal area sort of ruled it out.