Edinburgh vs Ulster - red card

[Browner]

these things are happening at a lot of breakdowns now and if they're not carful it could get a bit silly. we often see people being "cleared out" by being crutch lifted and a lot of these end up with the potential jackeler with their head below their hips. I'm not saying it's right, but around the breakdown is different than an open field tackle at speed :shrug:

I think that "speed" is a red herring BFG, as the vast majority of tipping tackles I witness involved a players momentum being halted before the lift, turn, drop or drive occures. I accept there is less movement in this case, but I'm dead against any player thinking its acceptable to deliberately & unnecessarily put another players feet at 12•clock to his head.

The sooner this act is removed from the game the better IMHO. I struggle to remember who first started introducing it.

I note the 'YC sufficient' supporting groups view, although I see lots of parallels with the McKinnon incident, in that many people thought that the 'gang' lifting actions of tacklers wasnt a serious risk !

If the discipline hearing confirms that my personal classification of RC is too harsh, then sobeit, although as a parent I'd rather see my son punched ( to the standard required for a red card) than him ever being lifted and his neck/spine exposed to this kind of unnecessary and potentially crippling upturning.

It will be interesting to see what the disciplinary guys uphold. I sincerely hope that this referee &TMO & I become the benchmark on this subject ongoing.

My Fingers are crossed!!

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.
Bertrand Russell (1872 - 1970)

 

[RobLev]

I think that "speed" is a red herring BFG, as the vast majority of tipping tackles I witness involved a players momentum being halted before the lift, turn, drop or drive occures. I accept there is less movement in this case, but I'm dead against any player thinking its acceptable to deliberately & unnecessarily put another players feet at 12•clock to his head.

The sooner this act is removed from the game the better IMHO. I struggle to remember who first started introducing it.

I note the 'YC sufficient' supporting groups view, although I see lots of parallels with the McKinnon incident, in that many people thought that the 'gang' lifting actions of tacklers wasnt a serious risk !

If the discipline hearing confirms that my personal classification of RC is too harsh, then sobeit, although as a parent I'd rather see my son punched ( to the standard required for a red card) than him ever being lifted and his neck/spine exposed to this kind of unnecessary and potentially crippling upturning.

It will be interesting to see what the disciplinary guys uphold. I sincerely hope that this referee &TMO & I become the benchmark on this subject ongoing.

My Fingers are crossed!!

Between them, #11, who was holding onto the neck and shoulders, and #12 on his hips, could easily have snapped Blue #7's neck; it's only by exceptionally good luck that they didn't. At one point the back of Blue #7's head is on #11's hip/thigh, chin on chest, with body vertical above.

RC for #12 is obvious (and no, irishref, IMHO he didn't try to bring Blue #7 down safely); but #11 was lucky to escape sanction himself.

EDIT: Re your sig - the fact (if such it be) that every opinion now accepted was once eccentric does not have the corollary that every opinion now eccentric will become accepted.

 

[Browner]

Between them, #11, who was holding onto the neck and shoulders, and #12 on his hips, could easily have snapped Blue #7's neck; it's only by exceptionally good luck that they didn't. At one point the back of Blue #7's head is on #11's hip/thigh, chin on chest, with body vertical above.

RC for #12 is obvious (and no, irishref, IMHO he didn't try to bring Blue #7 down safely); but #11 was lucky to escape sanction himself.

Roblev
One. I was replying to BFG :booty:
Two. Our opinion on the incident seems to align.

 

[RobLev]

Roblev
One. I was replying to BFG :booty:
Two. Our opinion on the incident seems to align.

:booty::wow::wow::wow::booty:

 

[redhanded]

A 4 week ban.

http://www.planetsport.com/rugby/news/four_week_ban_for_mccloskey_1079897/15-02-24

 

[thepercy]

Have you given (or considered giving) two players from the same team cards for the same lifting incident?

 

[menace]

Just to be clear on my 'didn't see a lift'....what I meant was, based on the clip I could literally not see any lift because I couldn't see the incident!! Because nothing was clear I assumed I had the wrong clip... That's not to say there wasn't a lift. If someone got vertical as claimed (and I didn't see that either) then there had to be a lift involved.

Yep...I had the wrong clip...something didn't quite align on my PC the other day. I've now seen it and I would still be happy with this response.

This is the law 10 reference..
[LAWS](j)
Lifting a player from the ground and dropping or driving that player into the ground whilst that player's feet are still off the ground such that the player's head and/or upper body come into contact with the ground is dangerous play.
Sanction: Penalty kick

[/LAWS]

The upgrade to YC/RC is a judgment thing, but I'd be using the tip tackle directive as a guideline!

I concede he was not technically lifted 'from the ground' but you could argue his feet were lifted from the ground and hips past the horizontal.
I don't disgree with the RC...the action put the player in very prone position for a neck injury (IMO, it's not a school yard headstand)
The fact that he's received an extra 4 weeks seems to suggest a lifting directive is a useful guideline for such an incident.

 

[Browner]

A 4 week ban.

http://www.planetsport.com/rugby/news/four_week_ban_for_mccloskey_1079897/15-02-24

+ One week added as deterrent to others ! Now that is progress :clap:

Ahem, post #14

Browner: Expect a LE 4wk sanction, commuted to 2weeks , at the very least.

Anything less, is shockingly negligent Disciplinary work, IMHO. Save even the very strong pro-necks this risk, rid the game of the idea that this is acceptable for all those merely playing in grassroots!

Unsure if I feel vindicated, exonerated, or like a gang rape survivor might !!

 

[irishref]

Well I'm still perplexed and there are hints of an appeal. Indeed if there was no technical "lifting off the ground" I wonder how the citing under 10.4(j) can be upheld. I was always led to believe that one needs a water-tight case to avoid a clever lawyer getting you off on such technicalities.

Either way I guess we need some clarification from the powers that be.