[Line out] forming line out

[mugsey]

19.8

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]'(d)

When the ball is in touch, every player who approaches the line of touch is presumed to do so to form a lineout. Players who approach the line of touch must do so without delay. Players of either team must not leave the lineout once they have taken up a position in the lineout until the lineout has ended.


[/FONT]
[FONT=fs_blakeregular]Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line' (is there a way I can put the quote from the laws in automatically?[/FONT]

My question is about the line out 'forming without delay'. I see on TV and also in amateur rugby, that this part of the law seems to have been eroded. Those who throw the ball in often have a little huddle before joining the line out. I do not allow this because of the above law, what do others do?

 

[Decorily]

........what do others do?[/QUOTE]

Unless they are really taking the p... I am happy to take a breather and then let them get on with the game.

Never a free kick for me...manage it!

 

[Taff]

It's a fair question Mugsey; some teams do seem to take liberties. Welcome to the forum BTW.

There is one phrase I picked up from this website and I love it; I have no idea who came up with it but it's "Ask. Tell. Penalise". If you think a team is taking the mick (I suppose you'll recognise it when you see it) ask them not to do it again. If they do, tell them not to do it again and if that doesn't work and they do it a 3rd time, penalise them with a FK.

I think I've only ever seen a couple of FKs given, because a polite "Quickly please gents" usually works, or as Decorily puts it "manage it". :biggrin:

 

[damo]

I'd never allow a huddle. Otherwise just use common sense as suggested above.

 

[mugsey]

Thanks chaps.

 

[Pegleg]

Agree with the above.

Be mindful of the team winng by a couple of points taking longer and longer at line puts toward the end of the game.

 

[Phil E]

Tigers v Glasgow tonight (don't talk about the score!)

Tigers have a lineout on their own 5m line.
Glasgow form their line.
Tigers have a huddle, ref peeps and tells them to get in the line.
Tigers swap a couple of players round have another discussion, ref peeps tells them to get in.
Tigers then start another huddle, ref peep, peep, peeps and tells them to get in.........tells them once more, then free kicks them.

He geve them 3 or 4 warnings and they just blatantly ignored him. I had no complaints with the decision.

 

[Taff]

Tigers v Glasgow tonight (don't talk about the score!) ... He geve them 3 or 4 warnings and they just blatantly ignored him. I had no complaints with the decision.

I wonder if the Ref is a subscriber. :biggrin:

 

[ChrisR]

[FONT=fs_blakeregular]Players who approach the line of touch must do so without delay.

[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]It's all in your interpretation of delay. I'm OK with a huddle so long as it doesn't become a debate. [/FONT]The real purpose of 'without delay' re. joining is to stop players running into the lineout after it's formed to get a numbers advantage.[FONT=fs_blakeregular]

Also see 19.7 [/FONT](b) The throw-in at the lineout must be taken without delay and without pretending to throw.

Better a quick huddle and a crisp throw than endless chanting from the thrower.

 

[SimonSmith]

Well if he is, he knows about the kicking he got for his mistake with the lineout after time expired issue...

 

[The Fat]

Tigers v Glasgow tonight (don't talk about the score!)

Tigers have a lineout on their own 5m line.
Glasgow form their line.
Tigers have a huddle, ref peeps and tells them to get in the line.
Tigers swap a couple of players round have another discussion, ref peeps tells them to get in.
Tigers then start another huddle, ref peep, peep, peeps and tells them to get in.........tells them once more, then free kicks them.

He geve them 3 or 4 warnings and they just blatantly ignored him. I had no complaints with the decision.

What option did Glasgow choose, tap or scrum?
Where the Tigers getting killed on their own throws in the lineouts and maybe thought either a tap or scrum to Glasgow was better than defending a maul 5m out? If so, if they did the same thing again, would it be reasonable for the ref to escalate?

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

If they do have a huddle, which I have no problem with, don't forget the opposition must have time to adjust their numbers.
E.g. Huddle of 7 players (full line) then suddenly six join and the ball is thrown in, never a free kick, play on.

 

[Pinky]

What option did Glasgow choose, tap or scrum?
Where the Tigers getting killed on their own throws in the lineouts and maybe thought either a tap or scrum to Glasgow was better than defending a maul 5m out? If so, if they did the same thing again, would it be reasonable for the ref to escalate?

Glasgow could have had a lineout with their own throw. I haven't watched the game yet, so I don't know what they did.

 

[Paule23]

On a slightly different point what do people feel about swapping the 9 into the line just before the throw?

had a team at the weekend, and on a 5 man line they would swap a forward with their scruM half at the last second. I'm not sure why as the scrum half then lifted, but I suppose the pass back went to a forward for a charge down field.

I'm thinking this is not allowed, as you have someone leaving the line out after it has formed, and it is definitely not peeling. They did it twice and I didn't penalise at the time, but I'm not sure I got it right.

 

[DocY]

What option did Glasgow choose, tap or scrum?
Where the Tigers getting killed on their own throws in the lineouts and maybe thought either a tap or scrum to Glasgow was better than defending a maul 5m out? If so, if they did the same thing again, would it be reasonable for the ref to escalate?

It'd be reasonable whether they're getting killed in the lineout or not. It's repeated, deliberate infringing.
First time: a couple of warnings then FK, or chat to the pack leader if no FK.
Second time: one warning, then FK.
Third time: straight FK
Fourth time: FK and chat
Fifth time: PK.

That's what I do, though it's never got beyond the third time, and I'm mindful that incompetence is a factor. At the top level, I'd expect the ref to follow a similar pattern, but to be more strict. Apart from the guy doing Glasgow Leicester, apparently.

UPDATE: After seeing the final score, I'd have been lenient on Leicester at this point, too!

 

[OB..]

On a slightly different point what do people feel about swapping the 9 into the line just before the throw?

had a team at the weekend, and on a 5 man line they would swap a forward with their scruM half at the last second. I'm not sure why as the scrum half then lifted, but I suppose the pass back went to a forward for a charge down field.

I'm thinking this is not allowed, as you have someone leaving the line out after it has formed, and it is definitely not peeling. They did it twice and I didn't penalise at the time, but I'm not sure I got it right.

[LAWS][FONT=fs_blakeregular]Players taking part in the lineout known as [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]participating players[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]. [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]Players taking part in the lineout are the player who throws-in and an immediate opponent, [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]the two players waiting to receive the ball from the lineout[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular] and the lineout players.

[/FONT]19.8 (k) [FONT=fs_blakeregular]Participating players[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular] in a lineout may change places before the ball is thrown.[/FONT][/LAWS]

Perfectly legal.

 

[Paule23]

[LAWS][FONT=fs_blakeregular]Players taking part in the lineout known as [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]participating players[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]. [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]Players taking part in the lineout are the player who throws-in and an immediate opponent, [/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]the two players waiting to receive the ball from the lineout[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular] and the lineout players.

[/FONT]19.8 (k) [FONT=fs_blakeregular]Participating players[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular] in a lineout may change places before the ball is thrown.[/FONT][/LAWS]

Perfectly legal.

good job I didn't ping it then!

 

[Decorily]

Always good when you come out looking like you know what you are doing....especially when you don't!