In Goal Question can you help??

[nightrider56]

I'm a new referee and I've got a law question that i just don't seem to be able to get my head around.Law 22.7 (a) states that when an attacking player sends or carries the ball into the opponents’ in-goal and it becomes dead there, either because a defender grounded it or because it went into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead ball line, a drop-out is awarded. I get that, but how is that different than Law 22.8
If a team kicks the ball through their opponents’ in-goal into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead ball line, except by an unsuccessful kick at goal or attempted dropped goal, the defending team has two choices:

• To have a drop-out, or
• To have a scrum at the place where the ball was kicked and they throw in.

I see a difference between carrying the ball and kicking the ball, but what is the difference between 'sending' the ball and kicking the ball?
The video's on the IRB website don't make this clear can anyone help??
Many thanks
Vince

 

[John3822]

Hi I can think of at least two instances where the ball can be 'sent' into the in-goal by an attacking player. 1) charge down of defending sides kick. 2) Off the head of an attacking player, not a knock-on. I think it is probably better to look at 'send' covering every other option other carrying, and that 'kicking' is one facet of 'sent', but in that one instance the law-makers have decided on a different outcome., Hope that makes sense.

 

[crossref]

I guess the 'chopperesque' scenario is

Red defender in field of play kicks ball

Blue charges down the kick

Ball goes over the try line and all the way over the dbl without anyone else touching it

Do you give red the option of a 22 or scrum where blue charged down? Or simply give them a 22 on the grounds that options only apply to a kick, and it wasn't a kick

 

[nightrider56]

even more confused now - so open to 'some' interpretation??

 

[Davet]

key phrase is "becomes dead there". ie it becomes dead inside in goal. the scrum back option only applies if

 

[Davet]

the ball is kicked and it goes through in goal rather than being made dead inside ingoal

 

[nightrider56]

Thanks for your response and what you say makes sense, but after the phrase "becomes dead there", the law does further state "either because a defender grounded it or because it went into touch-in-goal or on or over the dead ball line" so it's not particularly clear (to me at least, but i am brand new to refereeing!)

 

[crossref]

Nightrider, give us a specific scenario you would be unsure about

 

[nightrider56]

Probably looking a bit too deeply into this, but i want to try and get as many decisions right as i possibly can. In essence I'm looking for a difference between 'sending' the ball and kicking the ball as the two sections of law seem to differ over this point. Appreciating what you and the others have said here. Clearly kicking the ball is obvious, but how is a ball sent and does this minor point really make such a difference?

 

[nightrider56]

This is how I see it working in practice (feel free to tell me i'm wrong) Red team kick from inside their own half and the ball goes all the way across the DBL of the Yellow team. If a 22 drop out is awarded the Red team has essentailly gained a territorial advantage (which is why the scrum is offered at the place of the kick?) If the ball was kicked from the same place - kick and chase - and a Yellow player chased back under pressure from a Red attacker - Yellow player had to touch the ball down to prevent a try being scored, a 22 drop out is awarded as this 'rewards' the attacking Red team with a territorial advantage??
Does that make sense?

 

[crossref]

nightrider - you are trying to work out WHY the lawmakers wrote the law as they did....
that's a matter of speculation. But what the law says is

1) Red team kick from inside their own half and the ball goes all the way across the DBL of the Yellow team
Action - yello get choice of scrum at place it was kicked or 22. They will choose the scrum

2) the ball was kicked from the same place - kick and chase - and a Yellow player chased back under pressure from a Red attacker - Yellow player had to touch the ball down to prevent a try being scored
Action
- if the ball had crossed the tryline and then yellow touches it down = 22m
- if yellow carried it over the tryline = 5m scrum red.

 

[nightrider56]

Got it! Thank you (and you're right i was trying to work out why)