Is it a groundswell or a lone lunatic?

[PeterH]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rug...sour-the-game-for-neutrals-1387025.html?r=RSS

I don't want to criticise the refs involved - but I have to agree with the article somewhat... we all know the elite game is different - but here's my question - should it be?

 

[Emmet Murphy]

I only saw the second half of the Challenge Cup; Berdos did look slightly out of his depth - some of his verbal communications were really difficult to understand and gave the impression he was flustered. His TJ let him down with the professional foul by the Bath hooker and he should have given Worcester a scrum when the Bath fullback took a Mark quickly by kicking the ball into his own player stood right in front of him. There was a fair bit of 'off the ball' stuff going on too which suggests some of the players lost confidence in him. I was a bit surprised because whenever I've seen him before he's always done fairly well.

I didn't see the Southern-Hemisphere stuff so can't comment there. But with regards to the Heineken Cup, I actually thought Owens had a pretty decent game overall. I'm not sure where that guy is coming from with his references to forward passes. Quinlan's binding was illegal and could have been managed differently. There were some tackles/rucks where players took slightly longer than they should have done to move or to release. But that is not "abysmal" or "pathetic" by any stretch of the imagination. The guy who wrote that is probably a Leinster fan!

 

[ex-lucy]

Referees have become a soft touch and the players know it.

due to the need for 'player/ coach acceptance' ... and assessors requirements for fewer and fewer penalties awarded ...

i am aware of the trend ...

 

[Mat 04]

Perhaps the author of that article could do better...

 

[David J.]

How about a day of protest in which referees whistle the game according the strict letter of the law. No materiality. No appreciation for flow. Manage with penalties. Someone's got their hands on the ball in a ruck, no "Leave it Blue". Blow it up. No, "Roll away Red". Simple penalties.

We'll see how players, fans, commentators and journalists like the game then with the referee at center stage and half the players in the sin bin for repeated infringements.

 

[PeterH]

From S Jones' Rolling maul:
Language barrier is a reffing disgrace

There was never a bigger scandal than the appointment of Nigel Owens, the Welsh referee, to the Heineken Cup final last week. I have to admit that I never realised the true scale of the travesty until I saw the statistics and heard him on one of those nifty RefLink systems.

It absolutely beggars belief that anyone could have been appointed to such an enormous game when they had refereed one of the teams - in this case, Munster - FIVE times in big matches this season. They won every one. The colossal advantage of knowing exactly how he would referee each aspect of the game - including his many personal idiosyncrasies, especially in the contact area - is disgracefully unfair. It was as if Munster had been given their pet ref.

The way it was all compounded was even worse. These days, officials insist that preventative refereeing and advice is a part of their art. Most of us wish they would shut the hell up. But as long as they are talking both teams evenly through their key decisions I can put up with it. Just.

maybe we should try that 1 day idea??

 

[Phil E]

From S Jones'

What a to*ser

 

[Bryan]

From S Jones' Rolling maul:
It absolutely beggars belief that anyone could have been appointed to such an enormous game when they had refereed one of the teams - in this case, Munster - FIVE times in big matches this season. They won every one. The colossal advantage of knowing exactly how he would referee each aspect of the game - including his many personal idiosyncrasies, especially in the contact area - is disgracefully unfair. It was as if Munster had been given their pet ref.

Thanks Newboy for posting this- I kept reading about comments from Guy Noves, and now Jones about how Munster had Owens x-times during the course of the season and I'm pretty sick and tired of this crap.

Now, hear me out:
-Owens earned the appointment on MERIT (OK, an Irish or French ref was ineligible due to the teams playing, but of the rest, let's assume he earned it).

- If referees cannot referee matches where teams from their own country are involved, are we going to go the extra-step and say that you need to have referee'd both teams during the season (or neither team, or one of the teams, but less than x times, where x is a very small number???)

You get a call from your coach telling you that you earned the appointment, but that you didn't get the appointment b/c you had refereed one of the teams too often. The big question is how many obscenities are you allowed to say before your coach hangs up the phone? In how many languages?

- If Owens had refereed the Toulouse v. L-Irish Semi-Final, would the same comments have been made???

Feck'em. I noticed it was the same team-of-3 for each of the k/out matches, so here's to the HC-appointments committee for naming the best team possible for the final.

I'm done ranting...

 

[ex-lucy]

i think Jones and Neves have a point.
it's about perceptions.
I am not decrying Owens and his skills as a ref. I think he has been one of the form refs this season in NH.
It's just that Munster did play him better. Toulouse were slow in adapting to him. Yes, that is Toulouse's fault on teh day - esp Pelous ... and finals are what you do on the day .. but if Owens had refereed Toulouse more often and Munster less often i think perceptions of and actual exp of Owens reffing would be better for all concerned.
Yes, Toulouse could have used videos to see Owens predilections, yes they could have been more intelligent ...

So, i would say it's:
75% the fault of Toulouse XV for on the day lack of adapatability and commiting the offences in the first place.
19% the fault of Toulouse coaching team for not picking up on Owens predelictions
5% the fault of HC Ref management for not appointing Owens to more Toulouse matches and less Munster matches.
1% the fault of Owens ... (he must have made a false call somewhere?)
which, i concede, is Jones' & Neves' point ...

 

[SimonSmith]

No one's debating that he got the game on merit.

But - Appts Secs that I know try to make sure that refs don't get the same teams too often for the reasons highlighted above.

And the point about the language barrier is one that we've discussed before - Jones makes a valid point.