Keeping the defence back 10 at a lineout

[Taffy]

I've been watching this recently with interest. When I started refereeing it took me the best part of a season before I realised I needed to control this aspect of the game. At my level I am astounded at how many players haven't a clue about when they can move up, so control it very tightly. I always raise my arm at the beginning of the lineout and only bring it down when the lineout is over. The one area where I start to sense an impatience is where the ball is caught, into a maul and the maul back foot passes the line of touch.

However after watching a number of games in the Autumn series it seems that the keeping them back option is very casual and the backs are often up before the maul is past that point. In general all the elite refs seem very casual about this.

Have I missed something?

 

[Simon Thomas]

That is showbiz rugby for you !

10m hold is crucial to give the ball catchers attacking options initially.
However once caught and a maul is formed and back foot passes line of touch that defensive offside line at 10m is down to perhaps 5m or less due to the maul formation itself. The key is to keep the defenders static until you are ready to let them move, but do consider what the effect of any encroachment may be - often none, but make sure the process is on your terms, not the players.

 

[TheBFG]

at that level the management of the 10m gap will probably be "managed" by the AR's, so it'll be their call into the ref, if it's Clear, Obvious and Expected.

My guess is that it's discussed at downtime/halftime and maybe agreed it's no biggy?

 

[Blackberry]

I'm with Taffy here, I was at the England Australia match. I was surprised by how swiftly the backs were allowed to come up at a lineout, but no players or officials out there seemed to think it wrong, so maybe this is the norm.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

I can confirm that my (then) IRB assessor in a regional international match gave me a hard time for penalising this, his argument being that since the lineout winning team had set up a maul, the position of the backs who had advanced too quickly wasn't terribly material. I didn't agree but that was the expressed view.

 

[Nigib]

Strictly speaking, hand only goes up if the ball is held in the lineout and it becomes a maul - if it comes off the top you don't have to do anything. Your management starts at the PMB when you instruct the 10s on keeping their backs in line, both 5m back at scrum (esp if it retreats towards them) and 10m at line out (tell em to wait a gnat's crotchet longer to see if your hand goes up - test they listen to Radio 4). Key is to then ensure they know you are watching them - some will actually signal to you to check they are back to start with, otherwise just wave them back every so often. Agree then it's tricky watching indiscretions in the lineout, what the ball's doing and so on as well as tracking the backs, but manage early to minimise problems.

 

[Dickie E]

be extra vigilant if it is a short lineout with forwards out in the backs. They often assume that they can run in and join the maul as soon as it forms.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

100% agree with Dickie on forwards joining mauls from shortened line outs being the biggest issue. My PMB alerts the 10 to this and asks him to take responsibility.

 

[Browner]

I'm with Taffy here, I was at the England Australia match. I was surprised by how swiftly the backs were allowed to come up at a lineout, but no players or officials out there seemed to think it wrong, so maybe this is the norm.

If its obvious that the forwards are driving a maul, then where is the materiality in stepping up, they were going to be on the HMF soon enough anyway ? .... Thats my guess at what's happening in showbiz .

 

[FlipFlop]

Stepping up too quickly prevents the ploy of: Form a quick maul, to commit the forwards, then quickly release the ball. Your forwards know it, is break quickly.

We used to use that all the time against "bigger" packs. And if the backs come up early, then a large part of the tactical benefit has gone.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

Agree with FlipFlop here, which was why I blew, but we spent a good five minutes on it after the game.

 

[SimonSmith]

100% agree with Dickie on forwards joining mauls from shortened line outs being the biggest issue. My PMB alerts the 10 to this and asks him to take responsibility.

This X2.

 

[Browner]

Stepping up too quickly prevents the ploy of: Form a quick maul, to commit the forwards, then quickly release the ball. Your forwards know it, is break quickly.

We used to use that all the time against "bigger" packs. And if the backs come up early, then a large part of the tactical benefit has gone.

Of course that could happen, and then the early stepping up does indeed become relevant, but often we see a team hell bent on continuing their driving maul without an ounce of thought to breaking off into the 10/12 channels, and therefore in those cases it does seem immaterial.

 

[ChrisR]

It is only not material after the fact, when the ball leaves the LoT. Until then, it's material.

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It is only not material after the fact, when the ball leaves the LoT. Until then, it's material.