[Law] Knock on from shoulder

[Christy]

Scarlets playing munster .

Munster just had a try disallowed from an obvious knock on from arm . ( approx 17 mins 1st half )
But raises an interesting question from commentator .who suggesyed ball came off a munster shoulder .

It clearly hit munster arm between elbow to shoulder .

But interestingly ,,if the ball had clearly hit a players shoulder.
Would you call this a knock on or not

 

[Ian_Cook]

1. Ball is propelled forward off the shoulder... play on
2. Ball is propelled forward off the arm... knock on
3. Ball is propelled forward off the area near the shoulder/arm but I can't be certain if it was shoulder or arm... play on (on the basis that it fails the C&O test)

IMO

 

[OB..]

There is a point where the arm and shoulder join. Decide if the contact was above or below that point.

 

[leaguerefaus]

1. Ball is propelled forward off the shoulder... play on
2. Ball is propelled forward off the arm... knock on
3. Ball is propelled forward off the area near the shoulder/arm but I can't be certain if it was shoulder or arm... play on (on the basis that it fails the C&O test)

IMO

I would think most people would expect a knock on to be called if it's so close to the arm that you're not sure. IMO letting that play on is giving too much advantage to the team that couldn't catch the ball.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I would think most people would expect a knock on to be called if it's so close to the arm that you're not sure. IMO letting that play on is giving too much advantage to the team that couldn't catch the ball.

What people think isn't really relevant. If you are going to call a knock on, you are making a definitive decision in circumstances you are not sure of.... we call that guessing!

 

[leaguerefaus]

What people think isn't really relevant. If you are going to call a knock on, you are making a definitive decision in circumstances you are not sure of.... we call that guessing!

You said you need to be certain. A criminal trial does not even have this burden of proof. I would think a knock on is better judged on what would be similar to the civil standard of proof - balance of probabilities.

 

[Pinky]

1. Ball is propelled forward off the shoulder... play on
2. Ball is propelled forward off the arm... knock on
3. Ball is propelled forward off the area near the shoulder/arm but I can't be certain if it was shoulder or arm... play on (on the basis that it fails the C&O test)

IMO

I agree with 1 & 2, but for 3 for me the c&o test is the other way round, lost forward or bounces forward off a player I would call a KO unless it was c&o it was off a body part that was not a KO, eg head, chest.

 

[ChrisR]

. . . and the shoulder starts where? Or is it where the arm ends? Is the armpit a fair reference point? Perhaps WR could issue a uniform requirement to resolve it. :chin:

I'm with Pinky and Ian on this.

 

[Blue Smartie]

I was watching and the player pundit was just awful - talking about not having come off fingers etc.
Anyway, all the players paused (including the player who knocked it on) before continuing.
For me, replays show it hit the player’s bicep, so good call - but it took all the angles to show that.