[INTERNATIONAL] Kurtley beale - lucky to stay on the field?

[Jz558]

In all the fuss over the sending off of Scott Barrett I cant help feeling that Kurtley Beale was lucky to stay on the field for his cheap shot on Goodhue in the lead up to the All Black's first try. As the try was reviewed to check sequence of events I cant help feeling that this was overlooked. On the footage I've seen looks like a shoulder to the head following the offload. Just interested in other opinions.

 

[Arabcheif]

Do you have a link to a Video for those of us that haven't seen it.

 

[Jz558]

https://youtu.be/uD0stunVh78?t=56

 

[Arabcheif]

Ah I see, for me def no arms tackle/shoulder charge. So yeah, YC for me. Didn't see any obvious head contact. Shoulder to check (above armpit height). So I'd play the advantage if i decided no try, come back for the Pen. Try was awarded but i think they def should've reviewed the "tackle" too.

 

[Shelflife]

Nothing there for me, Rugby collision, ball is played through, Beale turns. they collide. play on.

 

[Arabcheif]

Nah my friend, the arm is tucked into the "Sling" position. clear shoulder charge. Only thing is no head contact.Of his arm was out in a tackling position then, yeah, i'd agree nothing in it. But the position of the arm is a no arms tackle.

 

[Camquin]

I thought I might like to compare the rugby collision with the red card incident - but the highlight don't seem to show it, only the waving of the card.
Are we all happy it was a RC?

 

[Arabcheif]

I thought I might like to compare the rugby collision with the red card incident - but the highlight don't seem to show it, only the waving of the card.
Are we all happy it was a RC?

I was hoping to see it in the highlights too. I haven't seen that incident.

 

[Pedro]

I thought I might like to compare the rugby collision with the red card incident - but the highlight don't seem to show it, only the waving of the card.
Are we all happy it was a RC?

To be honest, on first viewing I thought yellow was the fair call - but going through the flowchart, it was a shoulder to the head - "Start at Red", and I couldn't see enough mitigation to reduce the sanction - so yep - Red for me.

 

[tewdric]

It was red for Scott all day long according to the flowchart. Very astutely picked by the referee.

Kurtley's also appears to b a deliberate cheap shot shoulder charge to the neck area after the ball has gone and should arguable be red too. He may well get cited for it.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Anyone know when Barrett's hearing is? Beale should also be cited

 

[Balones]

With slo-mo. Goodhue kicks. KB turns. G runs forward. KB has to keep line because of momentum. Could he have deviated away? KB’s arm is never raised. G is going down slightly. Shoulder doesn’t make contact with head.
Play on. Penalty at absolute best/worst case for late tackle. Marginal but players at this level can read situations very quickly. If penalty - advantage. No citing. Looked slightly worse in full speed than in slo-mo.

 

[irishref]

I didn't see the game but watched the condensed highlights on you tube. On first viewing I thought "hmm, that looks dodgy, Kurtley", and replays of the try certainly didn't change my initial gut reaction.

It looks to me to be a shoulder charge, Beale's arm is tucked into his body and he prepares for a collision but turning his body round. Previously my rationale would have been "definite PK, yellow territory". Obvoiusly NZ took their advantage and scored the try, but the moot point is does Beale deserve a personal sanction beyond the team losing 7 points.

Now, I'd like to see other angles since the try replay angle doesn't clearly show where the initial contact from Beale's shoulder was on the NZ player. If it was head, then I guess we have to apply the decision matrix and then I would have to concur that we're looking at red.

I think though that the citing period has elapsed (almost midday on Tuesday C.E.T) so I can only conclude the citing commissioner saw nothing in it?

 

[beckett50]

Anyone know when Barrett's hearing is? Beale should also be cited

He got 3 weeks

 

[nhughes]

NZ definite red card, led with the shoulder straight into an opponent's head, no attempt to tackle and very dangerous and a good spot by Garces. Beale not so sure, maybe a penalty if the try wasn't scored but for me it was mainly momentum.

 

[Jz558]

I appreciate the opinions of those who have commented. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to cheap shots as an ex fly half but I just don't think Beale's actions were unavoidable. Too often we accept that because a team scored that's fine and reward enough and no need to look further whereas often cheap, cowardly shots happen in the act of scoring or in the moments leading up to a score. Maybe Beale was caught in two minds but as with everything we make a judgement and mine, but I accept not that of the citing commissioner, is that he deliberately took the guy out.

 

[Balones]

I appreciate the opinions of those who have commented. Maybe I'm overly sensitive to cheap shots as an ex fly half but I just don't think Beale's actions were unavoidable. Too often we accept that because a team scored that's fine and reward enough and no need to look further whereas often cheap, cowardly shots happen in the act of scoring or in the moments leading up to a score. Maybe Beale was caught in two minds but as with everything we make a judgement and mine, but I accept not that of the citing commissioner, is that he deliberately took the guy out.

As I said in my previous post, I can accept that it may have been a case of taking out the AB but in doing so he did not do anything that would warrant a citing. There was no dangerous foul play. At best there was some obstruction, which I would say falls outside the role of a citing officer. If the try had not been scored I could have seen a situation where the TMO may have come back for a penalty. But as I have suggested in another thread, didn’t the kicker do what he wanted? I.e. draw the defender into a tackle and not allow time to deviate away. We have a situation where the defender was practically still while the ball carrier was moving forward quickly. Who ran into who? All KB did was try to turn round and was run into by the AB. But I can accept that ‘expectation’ would be that KB be penalised rather than the fact that he deliberately did anything wrong.

 

[Arabcheif]

@Balones - but what about the arm tucked into the sling position. This is clearly a tackle without a wrap. If he'd had his arms our to charge the kick or wrapped his arms round like in a tackle, then fair enough. i'd be inclined to agree, nothing to see play on. But the arm in the sling position makes it a potential citing issue. What if there had been an injury or KB thinks it's fine and next time there's an injury? Farrell's got away with it on numerous occasions over the last 18 or so months.

 

[OB..]

@Balones - but what about the arm tucked into the sling position.

At the moment the ball is kicked, Beale's arm is still out wide. He only brings it in when he tries to turn.

 

[Arabcheif]

So if the BC still had the ball in hands it would be ok too? No, I'm considering a YC every time. Dependent on the level of danger. This may not peak to a YC but others that look similar may.