[Law] Leciester Newcastle. LAst-minute try or not?

[CrouchTPEngage]

I gotta say that I though Leicester and Newcastle, last night was superbly reffed by one of the best. Step forward Mr Luke Pearce and take a bow !

There was a lot of controversy over the last-minute ( and unfortunately highly-significant) try.
Mr Pearce says "I cannot see a grounding so I have to ask "Try Yes or No"".

There is then some good dialogue between TM and Mr Pearce which appears to centre around if the whistle was blown or not before the 2nd grounding of the ball.
Then Mr Pearce changes to "There is no evidence as to why I cannot award the try". This is now a different question to the "Try : Yes or No" question which was originally asked.

A brave call. And one I felt could have gone either way. I dont get TMOs at my level and, to be honest, its difficult for me to know if I would have awarded a try there or not.

Question is - can a ref change his question to the TMO from "Try Yes or No" to "Is there a reason why I cannot award a try" ? Especially given the context of "I could not see any clear grounding of the ball"?

 

[crossref]

(aside, Luke Pearce has been given one of the NZ France games .. he is clearly on the way up, I expect to see him at the RWC )

 

[CrouchTPEngage]

(aside, Luke Pearce has been given one of the NZ France games .. he is clearly on the way up, I expect to see him at the RWC )

Yep. Always liked him. Brilliant communicator and show really good empathy with the players. One of the best.

 

[Toby Warren]

Yep. Always liked him. Brilliant communicator and show really good empathy with the players. One of the best.

A good ref no doubt.

I think this was not one for his highlight reel.

The try (assuming he gives it for Hogg’s second go) is a poor decesion. It’s scored after the whistle and is clearly a ‘double movement’ / not releasing.

Ironically I think Hogg score the first one

 

[Marc Wakeham]

If he goes to the TMO as he can't see the grounding (Let's assume it was the one before the whistle for this argument) and when watching the video he can see that it was grounded, it makes perfect sense for him to take ownership and say it is a try. I have no issue with that.

If the grounding was after the play stopped then I would say he was wrong.

From what I saw I thought he had a good game. The sound was off so I can't comment on the conversation for the "try"

I'd say the correct outcome was achieved even if the the method was not correct.

 

[crossref]

the full game video is now up - so people can watch and judge for themselves (I haven't watched it yet)

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/video/full-match-leicester-tigers-v-newcastle-falcons-round-21/

 

[Butters]

From the TV replays available to us (and presumably the TMO) there was no C&O grounding at the first attempt. So Pearce rightly asks "Try or No Try"? He then seems to think there probably has been a try (at the first attempt, although player celebration should not be a factor, it clearly is) and if he hadn't blown his whistle Hogg might have scored at the second attempt, (tricky though releasing the ball, getting to his feet, picking it up and scoring in a split second before being smashed by the Tigers pack.)

I go back to the first point made by Crouch, TP, Engage, can a ref change his question after seeing a couple of replays? Imagine a team's future for the season depended on it.... oh hold on, it did.

 

[DocY]

I go back to the first point made by Crouch, TP, Engage, can a ref change his question after seeing a couple of replays? Imagine a team's future for the season depended on it.... oh hold on, it did.

TBH, I think that if there's good communication between the ref and the TMO, it doesn't matter too much exactly what he asked originally.

You might have a conversation along the following lines:
ref: "Try, yes or no?"
TMO: "Here are some angles"
ref: "Okay, I'm happy I can see a grounding, can we look at such and such to see if there was an infringement?"
TMO: "I can't see an infringement, so you can award the try"

As said above: getting to the right outcome is the important thing. The question you ask is just the route you take to get there.