Maintaining penalty count

[matty1194]

Thats a good solution matty, its something ive struggled with this year so will look at implementing that idea.

OS/S is that offside and scrums

TRM tactical/ruck/Maul ?

Yes indeed Shelflife, that is what it stands for, not a 100% solution but workable to keep an eye on rising count but not specifics such as 4 in at the side or 5 hands in the ruck but great to say to captain, you have now had 6 PK at TRM your team's behaviour needs to change or I will have to look at further sanctions.

At the end of each Q I circle the number of offences marked down, not to reset my clock/count as such but adds more weight to my message to a captain to be able to say in the last 20 mins we have had the following........

 

[menace]

I've often wondered about this as I haven't mastered the art of memorising PK yet. I can play a round a golf and recall every single one of my 100 or so shots after the game, but I'll be damned if I can remember 20+ PKs. I can usually sense if the PK is high or low and if there is a trend developing. I addressed it with my coach and he said that I shouldn't be remembering or counting every PK during the game as each one should be awarded on their merits and if it's deserved then it should be given regardless of the count. The key with PKs is dealing with the trend (not the number) via management intervention tools at the right time to arrest the trend. He indicated that the time for PK analysis is after the game on self review and determining what I could have done better.
As a result of that advice I tend to worry less about the PKs number itself but try to pick up on trends and deal with them and to self analyse if the PK was correct/accurate.

Therefore if you're recording PKs live, don't you run the risk of, consciencously or otherwise 'evening up' the PK count and therefore adjusting your refereeing to the players and not vice versa?

 

[Dave Sherwin]

I can honestly say I don't think I've ever made a penalty decision, either way, on the basis of the current penalty count; the speed of decision making necessitates that it is instinctive and those thought processes cannot really be messed with, I find. However, knowing the exact count does prove very useful in making YC decisions etc. as when one side is indisciplined, it can lead to an overall sense that there is poor discipline and hence you may give the more disciplined side a shorter "repeat offences" leash than they actually deserve. Of course, it can all be done without the empirical data, but it is useful to have. EDIT: "instinctive" is a bad word re decision-making, but I'm not quite sure what I would replace it with - automatic based on observations but with a bit of empathy / match awareness thrown in!

 

[menace]

Dave, I'm wondering if telling your greenhorn to keep an eye/count of PKs is really the answer you need?

I get the sense from your OP, and correct me if I'm wrong, that he's just whistle happy and perhaps hasn't yet balanced the offence with the materiality of the offence and using verbal management to perhaps not blow the whistle. Sure the offence may have been there but from your viewing was it material? Perhaps your discussions with him might centre on recalling a couple of less material offences to him that occured and see if he recalls them and then ask him to recall or describe how he viewed it and see if he can derive a different approach to it than blowing the whistle.

When I've coached new referees that are whistle happy Ive found its mainly because they were whistling the immaterial offences (or looking too hard for an offence and Lo and behold they find one....it was one of my failures early on). We will then discuss what they are thinking and strategies to adjust if necessary.

 

[Dave Sherwin]

Sorry - must've given the wrong impression. He's actually doing very well, and his instinct for the penalty flow is good; he's just struggling with the last step of keeping a definitive count. I just sort of always keep it, so I was short on how to do so if it doesn't automatically update. Some great ideas here and I'll definitely be passing them on!

 

[Pinky]

It is a good idea to suggest to a developing ref that he keeps track of penalties. In lower level games just a comparative count is all that may be required, but at the higher level games knowing what it was for for trends becomes more important.

I like my forearm hair more than Matty, so I just keep a count in my little notebook that I use to record the score.

 

[SimonSmith]

I agree with Menace.

I've never kept a definitive count of penalties or free kicks. I do think - and my assessors/advisors agree - that I have good inbuilt tracking for when to escalate things with the captain. I can detect the trend, in other words.

Why the need to track your exact PK count if you can track the trend? I would argue - as we have discussed many times here - that there are other factors that go into the escalation process rather than simply the PK count: frequency, recency, mood of game. None of those is reflected in a hard count.

There are many things that have gone into how I can improve my refereeing. Knowing where I am in terms of penalty management is not one of them. I can't say I've ever been undersrerved by not tracking.

 

[beckett50]

Personally I keep a record on my scorecard. It's a conscious action and is a good mental trigger when either the book is being pulled from the pocket rather rapidly and/or when the penatlly count reaches 5 for one team.