Messy tackle - maul at sametime

ChrisR

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Sorry that I can't convince you Maruader,

I personally can't see how an opposition player that grasps the ball, which is still being grasped by the initial ball carrier, can't also be grasping some part of the ball carriers hand, forearm, pinky or otherwise. That is they have effectively also held a piece of the ball carrier while holding the ball. To try an distinguish that he's got only the ball, and nothing but the ball, during a dynamic event is simply too difficult and is angels dancing on pin heads to try an figure out what is grasped and what is not. If it looks like a duck, then I'm calling it a duck. I personally think you're being too semantic with the words rather than the intent of the law, which is that ball carrier that is off their feet (tackled) are released and given an opportunity to use one of his options. It was part of the big 5 (clear release) to help attacking rugby.
The fact that you can't decide in law who should 'release' in your 'ball only' scenario means you've not convinced me to change the way I interpret the laws.

I'm going to make it simple for myself, and I'm calling A is tackled and B must release. I'm doing this because 15.6 c is quite clear in my mind. "Players in opposition to the ball carrier who remain on their feet who bring the ball carrier to ground so that the player is tackled must release the ball and the ball carrier. ".

But if I'm howled down by the other refs on here that I've got it wrong then I've been getting wrong as a ref for the last 5 years and I'll have to readjust.

Menace, having given this some more thought I agree with your approach to the situation.

My issue was this: two players grasping ball, one goes to ground, the other has to release and give possession up to the one off his feet. That seemed counter intuitive to me. Law 14 "The game is to be played by players on their feet .... etc., etc."

However, I subscribe to the notion that simpler is better. So you are right in that it would be impossible to discern that only the ball was grasped. Therefore call it a tackle and apply law accordingly.
 
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