[6N] No Advantage

[DocY]

A nice illustration of what constitutes advantage from the weekend:

Watching the Scotland-Wales game in a pub with several Welshmen.

In the second half Scotland had a long penalty advantage (probably over 10 phases, but I wasn't counting) during which time they went forward fully four metres before infringing. The referee went back for the penalty.

The Welshmen were irate about this, but (and I did point it out to them) if they felt the penalty was better for Scotland than the result of the advantage, there wasn't any advantage!

 

[Rich_NL]

They might feel that penalty + freedom to play as you want for many phases is more than giving the penalty straight off. It's not Wales' fault that the Scots couldn't move it forwards.

Advantage is a protection to the team. If the ref had let them make 10 metres clear gain on a scrum advantage, and then blown up for an interception that Wales could have scored off, the scrum 10m back is better for Scotland than the result of the play... but the ref is still giving too much advantage.

I remember in the AUS-ENG 2016 summer test, Australia had penalty advantage in England's 22, and after (IIRC) 22 phases of gold crashing into white Craig Joubert called "advantage over" for this reason, even though the Wallabies hadn't scored and could easily have kicked 3 points from the mark.

 

[Donk93953]

"It's not Wales' fault that the Scots couldn't move it forwards."

Unless Wales had left the pitch, it IS Wales defense that was preventing the Scots from moving forward.

Advantage, well done by the referee.

Some of his adjudication of rucks needs to be looked at though.

 

[Decorily]

Some of his adjudication of rucks needs to be looked at though.

Well nothing new there!
(I include my own adjudication of rucks at times)

 

[DocY]

Advantage, well done by the referee.

TBF, I didn't think this was great from the ref. It did go on for a long time and, IMO, he should have gone back for the penalty much earlier - as soon as they're getting slow ball with the defence set.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

"Advantage must be REAL". Too many refs play on in the HOPE that an advantage will come. 10 phases, with no progress, is HOPE. That is poor jusgement by the referee!

 

[SimonSmith]

I thought the length of the advantage was too long, especially when it was clear that Scotland were going side to side.

 

[Flish]

I was considering this at the weekend, L11 game, tackling not great so fairly easy to run the ball around. Same team, on pen advantage, once in oppos 22, multiple phases (10+), barely moved, eventually I blew up. In contrast in their own 22 I called it over after 2 phases as they had posession and had exited the 22. The difference was queried, but my argument was that gaining posession and exiting the 22 was a very real advantage compared to where they were - does that feel right? It did at the time.

 

[Rich_NL]

Absolutely Flish, a good call.

My last assessor suggested tightening up my calls on penalty advantage (blowing up earlier unless there was a clear chance), and I feel it's really improved the games I've reffed since.

 

[Rich_NL]

"It's not Wales' fault that the Scots couldn't move it forwards."

Unless Wales had left the pitch, it IS Wales defense that was preventing the Scots from moving forward.

Of course I mean that the opportunity to attack is part of the advantage, and the offending team playing well is not a reason to keep giving *more and more* chances and still going back for a penalty in the end. If the defence is set and there's nothing really on, come back for the kick while blue's legs are still somewhat fresh!

 

[menace]

it's already been said...but going through the motions of applying PK advantage for 5+ phases probably shows the ref isn't connected to the game in front of them (ie "hoping!" as someone already said!). In fact playing advantage for that many phases just becomes a disadvantage to both teams - by needlessly chewing up time and energy.

IMO, going through 5 phases on a PK adv just to pull it back 10m+ makes the ref look a little silly. IMO with a PK adv if they haven't made a line break with in 2 phases - I'm pulling it up. Let them kick the bloody thing 30m+ and get on with it. (same for inside 22m - let em make the call for 3 points or have another go at the try with the 10m space!).