Park House 2nd v Bexley 2nds

[Robert Burns]

Level : ?
Type: Friendly
Weather: dry but muddy

I had turned up at Park house only to find another referee at the helm.

I of course thought it must be a balls up by the society, but alsa no, the balls up was my end, I was supposed to referee Charlton Park, not Park House. An apologetic email has since been dispatched!

So, anyway, whilst thinking that i was correct, and being the second referee on site, I have asked Mike if he would like a TJ, he of course agrees and of we go into the sunset of the Park house main pitch.

This is the 5th time I have become a TJ (no the othjers were not my balls ups before you ask) and for Mike it was the first game he had the advantage of a TJ.

I offered my assistance on law 6 and was accepted, and thats where we started.

The game started with Park House no. 8 being particularly mouth adter the initial few penalies. Mike immedietly dealt with these by changing a couple of decisions to penalties and advancing 10m. The captain quickly realised Mikes Stance and shoulted to his team that he had subs and if the teams didn't behave he would use them. Well controlled Mike!

The game went fairly well, there was some mumblings beind me about decisions, but I'm sure thats a normal thing, just not normally a TJ to hear it, when asked by the supporters what i though I exclaimed that the Ref is the man in charge, all i do is assist. an accepted answer as Mike was having an excellent game.

An incident then happened where two players decided to have handbags, and although a friendly this shouldn't be accepted. I noticed the opposite driendly TJ from PH giving some advice from numbers, and thought I should come on and help to advise. I believe the PH TJ had not given numbers to Mike, as far as I saw PH 15 was fighting with Bex 7, and so told Mike so. Mike agreed with me and went for the pocket, I sa him pull the red but in front of him both players said sorry and shook hands, I think this appeased Mike and he then duly sent the offending players for a 10 minute rest bite. IMO The absolute correct choice!

PH then had a penalty 9m from the Bex try line, they span it out to my side and the last player knocked it on, I advised Mike that the Bexley players had not been behind the line and he then awarded PH another penalty 5m from the line. Once agin the spun it out to my side, only for once agin the last player to spill and knock on...

...two in a row, you couldn't have written it!

All in all though, an excellent game by Mike.

My only advise from the sidelines is to make his Signals clearer and his whistle louder, not exactly something we havent all been told at one time or another!

Well done Mike! you did superb! We await you description of the game.

 

[Deeps]

What happened to Charlton Park? Did they get a referee?

 

[Robert Burns]

I have no idea, I did send a very apologetic email though, I hold my hands up that it was a complete balls up on my part which I only discovered after returning home. I was convinced my email had said Park House.

 

[Red Munster]

What's the situation re mouthing off? If you give a scrum for example, and one of the offended players gives you grief, do you

a) change the decision to a penalty?
b) move the scrum forward 10m?
c) change the decision to a penalty and move the penalty forward 10 metres?
d) something else?

 

[Deeps]

Ask, Tell, Penalise. When I have a chat with skippers before the toss up I state that I don't mind friendly banter "After all we are all out here this afternoon to enjoy ourselves but I will punish dissent from wherever it comes [e.g. even from skippers!]. Remember I am there to make decisions not to discuss them. We can do that later in the bar".

At the first problem, I remind the individual with something like "That's enough, move on". If he persists, then penalty there and then. If not then carry on with the scrum but at the next occasion, loud blast, penalty indicating dissent. If it happens again, call the skipper over, remind him that we discussed dissent at the briefing, it is now a repeated offence and you are running out of options [hint, hint!]. Award penalty. Thereafter use your judgement as to whether you award another penalty or a yellow card.

This is over simplistic perhaps and will not cover every occasion but I attempt to exhaust a reasonable number (2 perhaps max.) of warnings before upping the anti. I try and put the onus on the skipper to take charge of his team, he is responsible for their discipline. "If I have to get involved then I will probably reach for a card so that the rest of us can get on and enjoy the game".

If a penalty or free kick is awarded, there is not usually enough time for any dissent. Occasionally I have had a skipper come straight up and attempt to slow things down by asking what is the penalty for. As I have already indicated and stated why I will wave him away with a "Not now" or something similar. If the offending side fails to retreat/interferes before a runner has had his 10 metres/takes the ball away I will instantly move the kick a further 10 metres having briefed previously that "Time wasting offences will suffer the full measure of the law" (makes them think what that might be). At the same time I will say loudly, "That's the first one." and, with a knowing nod, stick up one finger. When it happens a second time, delay the retake 10 metres up to tell the offending team's skipper that "That is now a repeated team offence." Take the penalty. On the third occasion, yellow card the nearest offending player.

Hope this all helps.

 

[SimonSmith]

What's the situation re mouthing off? If you give a scrum for example, and one of the offended players gives you grief, do you

a) change the decision to a penalty?
b) move the scrum forward 10m?
c) change the decision to a penalty and move the penalty forward 10 metres?
d) something else?

There is no hard and fast rule about how you deal with these situations. In fact, how you handle it is reflection of you and how you referee.

One of the reasons that this is a difficult question to answer is that it depends on your version of "giving grief". A mild complaint about missing a knock usuually warrants some management - I have been known to say "shut up". Not abruptly as an instruction, but in an incredulous tone of voice; or simply asking "did I give <whatever he's complaining about>?". When he says "no", he gets an "OK then, we keep going with a scrum to whoever it was".

If he doesn't get the message that way, and keep s complaining about missing things, then I try to get the captain involved, without penalizing. If the "grief" is very vocal, and more personal in nature, then it's a penalty, and a swift bollocking.

I had a great bit of captaincy from a team in Hampshire once, Trojans. Told the captain that if the TH didn't shut up, they were going to be one short in the front row. Captain turns round to player and says that if he says one more thing, he's going off "for blood." Prop: "but I'm not bleeding." Captain " you f**king will be when I punch you." Prop: "ref, can he say that?" Of course, I had gone temporarily deaf, and burst out laughing. No problems for the rest of the game.

Sadly, captaincy like that is a dying art.

 

[Robert Burns]

Would you send off/punish players who hit their own team? Is this actually an offence as I believe without looking the law book only deals with oposing players?

 

[SimonSmith]

Would you send off/punish players who hit their own team? Is this actually an offence as I believe without looking the law book only deals with oposing players?

There is also provision for penalizing for unsportsmanlike behaviour, or however it's phrased.
Let's be honest, the chances of that happening? Slim. I just thought that it was an inspired piece of captaincy, and one that worked.

 

[Red Munster]

thanks for the input guys.

What I'm getting is that you have to manage it depending on the situation and seriousness of the back chat. I would be inclined to be as lenient as possible unless it becomes accusatory or personal. As in a lot of borderline laws, you have to use your judgement.

 

[Robert Burns]

I realise this Simon,

But image your in a one sided game, team is losing lots of penalties for various reasons, frustrations are high, couple from the same team start arguing and handbags are pulled out.

Would you react by laughing at the situation
Just ignore it
Bollocking the players
Calling off the match
Bin'n the both of them
red them both?

 

[Deeps]

I think you may have identified the problem in the penalty count. Perhaps managing the problem better according to the skill of the players to prevent penalties rather than waiting for them to happen is needed, even if this means stopping for a minute to show a player what he is doing wrong. At lower level games a spot of quick coaching to explain a point of law will usually be taken in the spirit intended and, if it helps solve the problem, chuck a few accolades around. Result - reduced frustration, players start enjoying the game.

 

[SimonSmith]

I realise this Simon,

But image your in a one sided game, team is losing lots of penalties for various reasons, frustrations are high, couple from the same team start arguing and handbags are pulled out.

Would you react by laughing at the situation
Just ignore it
Bollocking the players
Calling off the match
Bin'n the both of them
red them both?

I honestly don't know, and it would depend on the circumstances. And also on the captain on the pitch. If I had confidence in him, I'd tell him he had a problem and he'd better get it sorted out before I have to. If I have no confidence in the captain I'd give them a colossal bollocking and hope that that sorted them out. Other than that - pass!