Post-try penalty protocol

[David J.]

Referred a couple matches yesterday. One was a close match between Blue and Gold. Blue was pretty athletic, but ignorant of some of the laws. Gold had an attacking 5m lineout. Ball thrown, won by Gold, who gathered to form a maul. Blue players not in the lineout came up fast before the mul crossed the LOT (it probably never would have), so I penalized for offsides.

Blue 15 started mouthing off, saying the lineout is over as soon as the ball came down. I ignored it in order to let Gold take a quick tap, which they did and scored.

Blue 15 continued to "inappropriately verbalize". I warned him but did not penalize. In retrospect, I should have, maybe even YC, but I'm a member of the Gold club and the original referee called off with family issues, so I was stuck refereeing my own club's match. I was very conscious of the appearance of bias, and was getting fatigued, as it was the second consecutive match I'd done.

Anyway, thinking about it later, I decided I should have penalized. But what's the protocol? Do I let Gold kick for points, then approach Blue capt and 15? Do I tell Gold to wait to kick? Do I blow my whistle to award a penalty before the conversion kick? Who's responsible for gathering the ball (I can see Blue simply letting the ball lie after the kick in that situation, and Gold now has to run 50+m to gather and come back)?

Thanks

PS Now that I think about it, the goal was scored and time was over for the half. It would have been Gold's KO to start the second half. But I'm interested in both scenarios (Blue KO or Gold KO).

 

[PaulDG]

Anyway, thinking about it later, I decided I should have penalized. But what's the protocol? Do I let Gold kick for points, then approach Blue capt and 15? Do I tell Gold to wait to kick? Do I blow my whistle to award a penalty before the conversion kick?

It's a "management" issue as what you need to do in order to prevent the offending continuing will vary by situation.

IMHO, unless Gold's captain is their kicker, I'd call both captains over before the kick is taken and inform them the restart will be a Gold PK from the centre for dissent after the score by Blue. Then allow the conversion attempt. (If Gold's captain is their kicker I wouldn't interrupt his preparation for this.) That should stop the dissent as the discipline issue is now back with Blue's captain where it belongs.

On the other hand, I wouldn't see it as an error if you did it the other way round. And where players happen to be on the pitch + where the conversion is to be taken from might mean getting the kick taken and then speaking to the captains may be the best way to manage.

Who's responsible for gathering the ball (I can see Blue simply letting the ball lie after the kick in that situation, and Gold now has to run 50+m to gather and come back)?

If it gets into that sort of thing, you may need to consider advancing the mark to the 10m line, etc..

 

[sgoat]

Gold had an attacking 5m lineout. Ball thrown, won by Gold, who gathered to form a maul. Blue players not in the lineout came up fast before the maul crossed the LOT (it probably never would have), so I penalized for offsides.

I would start by posing the question did you really need to penalise? Ball is caught and a maul formed, have any of those backs have actually interfered with the game? Material effect? Possibly a quiet word with the 10 before the next kick off?

Anyway, thinking about it later, I decided I should have penalized. But what's the protocol? Do I let Gold kick for points, then approach Blue capt and 15? Do I tell Gold to wait to kick? Do I blow my whistle to award a penalty before the conversion kick?

I would suggest that as the verbals would probably happen near the try line then while you are still there you call the Blue player and the captain over and explain that you don't want to hear it what he's said again, etc and you will be re-starting with a penalty against them for dissent.

It is up to you whether you bring the Gold skipper in or not.

Who's responsible for gathering the ball (I can see Blue simply letting the ball lie after the kick in that situation, and Gold now has to run 50+m to gather and come back)?

I can't really see it happening. Most teams will catch the ball for the conversion. If they leave it behind then tell the Blue skipper to go and get it and stop being so petty.

Now that I think about it, the goal was scored and time was over for the half. It would have been Gold's KO to start the second half. But I'm interested in both scenarios (Blue KO or Gold KO).

Time cannot be over until after the conversion kick. There was therefore an infringement by one side during 'time' which warranted a penalty restart. You cannot end the half on a PK so you trot up to the half way line and give your penalty. You cannot carry the offence over till the next half.

 

[David J.]

Good point about the end of the half not being the end of the half.

 

[GeorgeR]

I had this in a game where I was reffing our own team (U14) (say Blue)and a ruck was formed just in front of the Blue Goal line. The opposition came through the ruck and picked up the ball as it had just come out the back of the ruck on blue's side and scored ( in my mind) a legitemate try. The blue team kicked off (esp the captain) about offside and despite a warning they protested again at which point I warned them to get on with the game or I would penalise them. The pleasures of refereeing not only your home team, but also junior rugby. If it happens again, I will probably restart with a PK to reinforce the point, and march them back to the 10m if they carry on. Lessons that have not been lost on the other coaches, but sadly with the parents...

 

[Davet]

I would suggest that you start by not giving them a discussion - try awarded, complaint, simply say "All legal, no offside, try awarded - back on your line, please" and then simply walk away.

I wouldn't penalise immediately just for a moan - however a lot depends on tone and words - it COULD be a straight Red.

If they do chase after and continue, then 1 short comment along the lines of - "Get back to your goal line - there is no debate"

If they do, fine; if not, then whistle - call captain over, tell him its a PK to retart, against them, after the conversion attempt - any more dissent will result in a YC.

 

[Scarlet Al]

Give the try, any dissent or whatever, inform them that "we will be restarting with a penalty on halfway against you for chopsing" (or dissent or any other word you want to use). Anything more would be a yellow card probably. I wouldn't tell them this though, they should learn after the first penalty.