"pre-planned" fight

[FlipFlop]

Okay: Situation for you all:

Last game of season. Cup final. 1 Minute left on the clock. Try just scored. Blue winning by 30 odd points.

Game been tense, but aside from 1 incident in the first half, not especially violent. Red getting "annoyed" at me - mostly as they are losing. Cards issued: Blue 1 yellow, 1 white (technical yellow card - team infringements); Red: 2 Yellow, 1 white.

Team A (Red) kick out on the full. By miles. Appears very deliberate.
Team B (Blue) choose the scrum.
Red #9 says something to his forwards (never spoke to them before scrums all game - this is new)
Scrum happens. Blue feed the ball.

Red back row disengage, and Red 2nd Row comes up swinging punches. All of Red join in, including player who was Yellow carded (off pitch). Very orchestrated.

Blue try to back away, and Red keep getting closer.

Calm eventually restored.

What do you do?

2 Views at my game:

Assessor says: Blow the Penalty, get Blue to restart and kick ball to touch, to end game. (but not get involved in any red cards).

I ended the game early. On basis of - pre-planned fight. Safety of players (and officials). By ending early I also gave our Discipline Commission something to work with (ending of game). And score/timing etc - meant the game was over

Other option: Continue game but issue all required cards.

First time in my life I have ended a game early, and on a fight. Not a happy bunny. Especially as the assessor was more important than normal.....

 

[Toby Warren]

Wow not nice at all. Hope that it doesn't put you off.

Send them off as required then abandon the game (or if you trust the blue kicker get him to kick it dead).

Don't understand why you wouldn't deal with the violent players?

 

[winchesterref]

I would issue all cards as required, restart the game, and keep my fingers crossed he kicked it of/ask him to, to end the game! Not nice I imagine. Can't really fault either way though, abandoning with 1 minute to go and the game in the bag seems sensible to me, providing all cards issued and reported as required so some accountability is recorded in writing/formal process

 

[Browner]

FWIW , I'd like to think id

RC the players who threw the 1st punches ( as many as I could accurately recall)
Then RC the player who ran onto the pitch to fight.
Then end the match early and report why, highlighting that it appeared a premeditated attack orchestrated by no9.

That would give the discipline blazers enough ammo to dissuade the club from future performances.
I dont agree that initiators remain unnamed by the blanket bombing assault.

As a cup final conclusion its a bad one for sure, but on the plus side you should get ample support for correct dismissals.

Sounds remarkably similar to this
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O-WxnXZNT0I

 

[OB..]

Formally abandon the game. Details will go in your report. That should allow Discipline to give bans against individuals as necessary, as well as against the club, with no need to issue cards.

For me, awarding the penalty, no cards, and getting Blue to kick it out sends entirely the wrong message. When something similar happened in a game I was watching, the instigator got a sine die ban and the clubs both had points deducted.

 

[Dickie E]

was the game videoed?

Either way, I think you've got to go with the cards.

 

[ddjamo]

I just did a presentation on how to handle lopsided matches. it's not easy and you need to have a game plan. there's that balance between not letting the winning side rub the loser's noses in it - and - keeping the losing side interested in playing and not fighting.

30 points and you're worried about 1min? forget it. if I were you I wouldn't be worried about this match. I would be working on my game plan and back tracking until I find where I could have fixed something and broken that chain of events.

 

[Browner]

I just did a presentation on how to handle lopsided matches. it's not easy and you need to have a game plan. there's that balance between not letting the winning side rub the loser's noses in it - and - keeping the losing side interested in playing and not fighting.

30 points and you're worried about 1min? forget it. if I were you I wouldn't be worried about this match. I would be working on my game plan and back tracking until I find where I could have fixed something and broken that chain of events.

Ddjamo , is the presentation something you'd consider sharing, if in an appropriate format? keeping a losing side interested can be quite a challenge sometimes.

 

[dave_clark]

30 points and you're worried about 1min? forget it. if I were you I wouldn't be worried about this match. I would be working on my game plan and back tracking until I find where I could have fixed something and broken that chain of events.

that implies there's always some way of stopping this from happening...

 

[FlipFlop]

DDjamo - lopsided? This was a National Cup Final. It was 10-10 at half time. Not a lop sided game. Game was not generally violent - if it had of been, then players would not have been on pitch to start the fight! (I am not afraid to show red - given several this season). But still - interested in your presentation - perhaps post it as an article?

My issue with issuing cards: Who to? Clearly the first puncher, and the guy who ran on, but could easily have RC'ed the entire back line (for running up and engaging their oppo), most of the forwards as well. And if it is more than 1 or 2, then it is a farce.

In my mind - ending the game early, should allow the Disciplinary committee to take action against those I label as main causers. Plus against club.

Playing on: If the kick to touch goes wrong, I have to play on. Plus there is less ability to take action against club. Game is over anyway.

The video clip - not far off, but ball was still in scrum, and back row broke a lot earlier......

(Note: Not first time this season that a game terminated early with this club... (plus other incidents that I can't comment on))

 

[Dickie E]

Those Swiss, eh?

 

[FlipFlop]

It's not the Swiss that are the problem........

 

[Dickie E]

It's not the Swiss that are the problem........

not the effing Germans again?

 

[ddjamo]

it was a practical presentation with examples and discussion...dry erase board only. nothing transferable to print.

curious...why would I post it here? this board has become a debate board - not a forum to help refereeing. rather than referees taking bits and pieces to use on their own - it would turn into a huge debate ending with a poll and a division of who can garner more right votes vs wrong votes....and you all know it!

 

[SimonSmith]

it was a practical presentation with examples and discussion...dry erase board only. nothing transferable to print.

curious...why would I post it here? this board has become a debate board - not a forum to help refereeing. rather than referees taking bits and pieces to use on their own - it would turn into a huge debate ending with a poll and a division of who can garner more right votes vs wrong votes....and you all know it!

I understand the frustration, but I suspect that cause and effect are mixed up here.

Maybe the reason for the endless debate is because of the infrequent posting on matters that help referees, as opposed to the more abstract discussions.

 

[Phil E]

I understand the frustration, but I suspect that cause and effect are mixed up here.

Maybe the reason for the endless debate is because of the infrequent posting on matters that help referees, as opposed to the more abstract discussions.

Its always the same in the off season, but ddjamo does have a point that there seems to be more "the ref got this wrong" rather than how can it be done better posts.

 

[Chogan]

Some love for paperwork and separate forms with you lot.

Technically you could have gone with the individual reds and then abandoned.
I would have just abandoned knowing the stage the match was at. 1 form is much easier to deal with and the you'll probably end up with the same result.