Ruck forms then Blue leave ruck, red ruck collapses

[Rich]

Hi everyone, interesting one that I had to referee today (for me) as I was unsure how to deal with this;

Red player tackled by blue - goes to ground
Ruck forms with 1 blue & 1 Red bound over ball
More reds turn up and join the ruck correctly. Blues also turn up, but then having been bound in, break away from the ruck (onside) leaving only 1/2 blue players bound in to the ruck.

Obvious result is that a full team of red forwards, pushes over the 2 blues, ruck ends up mangle wreckage on the ground, but red 9 manages to get hands on ball and get it out...


Q: Blues deliberately backed off Ruck - Should they be penalised for deliberately collapsing the ruck? Reds were pushing then all ended up on the floor - should they be penalised for being off their feet or simply no longer able to contest.

I saw blues doing this repeatedly and chose to let play continue - reds cleared the ball. Blue coach screaming blue murder about players (red) being off their feet and wanting penalties....

thoughts?

 

[OB..]

If A is pushing against B, and B suddenly gives way, A will fall over. Is that A's fault? Surely not. Was B's action illegal? if not, play on.

Players are entitled to leave a ruck, so I think the Blue coach has devised a useless tactic, designed to win penalties. The law deprecates trying to "win" penalties - see 21.9, 16.4 (f), 17.3 (b), 20.9 (h).

Well done for playing on.

 

[Rich]

If A is pushing against B, and B suddenly gives way, A will fall over. Is that A's fault? Surely not. Was B's action illegal? if not, play on.

Players are entitled to leave a ruck, so I think the Blue coach has devised a useless tactic, designed to win penalties. The law deprecates trying to "win" penalties - see 21.9, 16.4 (f), 17.3 (b), 20.9 (h).

Well done for playing on.

Much relieved at your answer OB.. self doubt does creep in when you have enthusiastic coaches from the side lines...

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Play on for me too rich

 

[Ian_Cook]

Hi everyone, interesting one that I had to referee today (for me) as I was unsure how to deal with this;

Red player tackled by blue - goes to ground
Ruck forms with 1 blue & 1 Red bound over ball
More reds turn up and join the ruck correctly. Blues also turn up, but then having been bound in, break away from the ruck (onside) leaving only 1/2 blue players bound in to the ruck.

Obvious result is that a full team of red forwards, pushes over the 2 blues, ruck ends up mangle wreckage on the ground, but red 9 manages to get hands on ball and get it out...


Q: Blues deliberately backed off Ruck - Should they be penalised for deliberately collapsing the ruck? Reds were pushing then all ended up on the floor - should they be penalised for being off their feet or simply no longer able to contest.

I saw blues doing this repeatedly and chose to let play continue - reds cleared the ball. Blue coach screaming blue murder about players (red) being off their feet and wanting penalties....

thoughts?

Read the actual wording of the Law...

[LAWS]16.3 RUCKING
(a) Players in a ruck must endeavour to stay on their feet.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]

It is about intent. The Law does NOT say that players are forbidden from going off their feet, it says they must attempt to stay on their feet. This is a BIG difference. As OB.. rightly states, if players are pushing on each other, then one backs off and the other falls over, it is not that player's fault that he has fallen over.

 

[ddjamo]

I have never seen enthusiastic used as a synonym for that word....

 

[Rich]

Read the actual wording of the Law...

[LAWS]16.3 RUCKING
(a) Players in a ruck must endeavour to stay on their feet.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]



Thanks guys appreciate the clarification. Another one to add to the "book of experience"

 

[Browner]

Hi Rich, If you go back to concept of rucks, it's two teams trying to shove each other to win possession ..... in your case Blues are signalling that they no longer wish to contest for possession when they withdrawal, so have Reds materially prevented Blues from having a bona-fide contest? even if the fall over the ball ... IMO no, they haven't. It's not exactly the same, but it kinda mirrors the thinking of a 'not straight' line out throw, when only one team is in the air & the other has decided not to jump to contest for possession. I'd play on. ***** on a separate note, if the teams repeated tactic isn't being supported by referees decisions, then a clever coach amends his tactic !

 

[Rich]

I have never seen enthusiastic used as a synonym for that word....

ever the diplomat i am.

 

[Rich]

, if the teams repeated tactic isn't being supported by referees decisions, then a clever coach amends his tactic !

I think perhaps he was trying to be too clever...