Rugby Championship referee appointments

Rushforth


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They've introduced Crouch, Bind, Set early for the tournament.

I greatly appreciate this. I trust that all ten will be strict.

Essential viewing for all of us (not every single match, but a decent sample)

Edit: how come the title is "12-strong referee panel"?
 
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KML1

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I lifted it straight from a SANZAR press release! Bloody SAffas.... Clearly 10! 2 others are being used as ARs, making it 12!
 
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winchesterref


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I'm glad to see neutral TMOs! Looking forward to this kicking off, due to have our training on 11th Aug on it and then games start on 17th. Can't wait!
 

FlipFlop


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What is Clancy doing to continue to get appointments? What am I missing when I watch him ref?
 

Ian_Cook


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Why? Weren't you a supporter of "referee appointnment made on merit"?

No, I never supported the merit referee system. I did say that I understood the reasons why it was done, but that doesn't mean I agree with it happening.

In an ideal world ALL match officials at professional level would be neutral.

Why are neutral TMOs so important?

Because now, TMO's have a greater possibility than ever before of making game-changing decisions, more so than the AR's IMO. While I have no doubt whatsoever that all SANZAR referees, ARs and TMOs go about their tasks in a fully professional and neutral manner regardless of who they are refereeing, it still leaves the situation open to the perception of bias.

When discussing the performance of the referee, the perception of bias is completely eliminated if all match officials are not from either of the countries involved.
 

Dickie E


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Personally, I'd rather have Chris Pollock reffing a Bled Cup game than Jonathan Kaplan.
 

TNT88


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Personally, I'd rather have Chris Pollock reffing a Bled Cup game than Jonathan Kaplan.

I agree. These guys are all professionals, hopefully one day the appointments are reflect the form/experience of the referees more closely.

Obviously they are employees of their respective unions. But it wouldn't take a genius to transform the IRB referee panel into an independent one.
 

KML1

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Ian_Cook


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Personally, I'd rather have Chris Pollock reffing a Bled Cup game than Jonathan Kaplan.
Maybe, but you could end up with Kaplan refereeing a Rugby Championship match Wallabies v Springboks. Would you be happy with that?
 

dylanthomas

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In the Rabo league (Wales/Scotland/Ireland), there are refs reffing teams from their country against teams from other countries. AR/TMO are from home countries. There have been no serious problem reported. All referees, AR and TMO want to be and seen to be fair.
 

Rushforth


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In the Rabo league (Wales/Scotland/Ireland), there are refs reffing teams from their country against teams from other countries. AR/TMO are from home countries. There have been no serious problem reported. All referees, AR and TMO want to be and seen to be fair.

I'd say welcome, but you've been lurking for a while. Welcome all the same!

The one consistent positive in my own refereeing is that I am seen as fair. I may miss things, but after the game, my players have not once considered otherwise. During the game, yes. They have questioned decisions. I have made wrong decisions; we all have. I do not have the benefit of To3 and TMO, and all my players understand that.

I do not - cannot - believe that a single professional referee (including all ARs and TMOs) has ever been biased. Not a single one, ever. Yet I've yelled against "bad" decisions. Admittedly before I had any experience as a referee myself, but spectators are stakeholders too. They pay the bills (by paying for tickets, Sky, etc.)

At the top level, even if WE know that decent referees are actually simply incapable of favouritism, "Joe Public" might think he is.

I know he won't be, we all know won't be, but in a commercial environment, it is worth spending the money to get 5 neutrals in there as often as possible.

And there is no reason for ARs not to be half "at home". It is just that TMO is now more influential.
 

Ian_Cook


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At the top level, even if WE know that decent referees are actually simply incapable of favouritism, "Joe Public" might think he is.

I know he won't be, we all know won't be, but in a commercial environment, it is worth spending the money to get 5 neutrals in there as often as possible.

Yes, that is my point.

Scenario (not an actual example)

Bulls (SAF) v Reds (AUS) @ Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria

A couple of debatable referee calls and a debatable TMO call allows the Bulls to kick two penalty goals and to score a converted try in the last 10 minutes to turn a 12 point deficit into a 1 point win.

If the referee is Bill Smith (NZL) and the TMO is Fred Jones (NZL) there may be questions about the correctness of the calls, but there won't be any about referee bias.

Could the same be said if the Referee was Marius van Bergensdorf (SAF) and the TMO was Jaap Visser (SAF)?

I don't think so. In professional sport, not only must there be no bias, there must be no perception of bias!
 

Rushforth


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there must be no perception of bias!

We have a deeper problem than that though. To pick a referee who was not involved in the Lions series at random. Wayne Barnes.

NZ versus France. See your own sig for what I think of that, but we have to deal with it at times.
 

Ian_Cook


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We have a deeper problem than that though. To pick a referee who was not involved in the Lions series at random. Wayne Barnes.

NZ versus France. See your own sig for what I think of that, but we have to deal with it at times.

I don't have (and have never had) a problem with Wayne Barnes as far as bias goes. I had a real problem with his level of competence five and a half years ago, and I do have a problem with some of his scrum management (I think he insists on a contest by protecting the weaker scrum, unlike Poite who insists on a contest by allowing the stronger scrum to dominate).
 

TNT88


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there must be no perception of bias!

There might be a perception that south africans are racist, but we shouldn't let that dictate selections.

Generally the people who hold these perceptions are a lost cause anyway. "Kaplan hates Australia", "Walsh hates 'inset country here'" ect...

Ignore them I say.
 

Ian_Cook


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There might be a perception that south africans are racist, but we shouldn't let that dictate selections.

Generally the people who hold these perceptions are a lost cause anyway. "Kaplan hates Australia", "Walsh hates 'inset country here'" ect...

Ignore them I say.

Rugby League aside (because there are logistical reason why they sometimes don't have neutral referees) Can you name me another major professional sport that uses match officials for matches between countries, who are from either of the two competing countries?

I can't think of one, not even cricket (neutral since 2002).
 
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