Super Rugby Appointments

[The Fat]

Round 1

Crusaders vs Melbourne Rebels at AMI Stadium, Addington, Christchurch
Referee: Briant Nick (New Zealand)
Assistant referees: Shane McDermott (New Zealand), Brendon Pickerill (New Zealand)
Television match official: Aaron Paterson (New Zealand)

Brumbies vs Reds at GIO Stadium, Canberra
Referee: Angus Gardner (Australia)
Assistant referees: James Leckie (Australia), Will Houston (Australia)
Television match official: Peter Marshall (Australia)

Lions vs Hurricanes at Ellis Park
Referee: Rohan Hoffmann (Australia)
Assistant referees: Andrew Lees (Australia), Lesego Legoete (South Africa)
Television match officials: Johan Greeff (South Africa)

Blues vs Chiefs at North Harbour Stadium, Albany
Referee: Chris Pollock (New Zealand)
Assistant referees: Ben O'Keeffe (New Zealand), Kane McBride (New Zealand)
Television match official: Ben Skeen (New Zealand)

Sharks vs Cheetahs at Kings Park, Durban
Referee: Andrew Lees (Australia)
Assistant referees: Rohan Hoffmann (Australia), Archie Sehlako (South Africa)
Television match officials: Marius Jonker (South Africa)

Bulls vs Stormers at Loftus Versfeld
Referee: Jaco Peyper (South Africa)
Assistant referees: Jaco van Heerden (South Africa), Stephan Geldenhuys (South Africa)
Television match officials: Johan Greeff (South Africa)

Waratahs vs Western Force at Allianz Stadium, Sydney
Referee: Steve Walsh (Australia)
Assistant referees: Damien Mitchelmore (Australia), Michael Hogan (Australia)
Television match official: Ian Smith (Australia)

 

[The Fat]

So round one is done and dusted and everyone was a little rusty, players AND referees.
Haven't seen every game and tried to watch some through bleary eyes while switching between 6N and SA games this morning so looking forward to seeing replays of the games missed during the week.
In amongst some ordinary ball handling and many stoppages that could be expected in week one there were several strange decisions from the refs. In particular a catcher taken out in the air (Sharks v Cheetahs) and Andrew Lees simply played the knock-on after the catcher spilled the ball as he crashed to earth. There were a few other breakdowns where Andrew Lees seemed to have only one line, "In from the side".
In the Waratahs woeful display against the Western Force, Steve Walsh made a couple of errors.
1. Force player looks certain to score after a charge down had gone in-goal and knocks the ball forward where Waratahs touch it down. SW initially (correctly) looks to be setting a 5m scrum with Tahs to feed. He then changes his call and allows the Tahs a 22 DO.
2. Force kick off and the ball goes into Tahs' in-goal where Kurtley (I f@%&#d up everything I touched today except this one) Beale dots it down and starts pointing, along with Adam Ashley-Cooper, and running towards the centre for the scrum but SW awards a 22 DO.
3. SW was clearly becoming frustrated with the Western Force's go slow tactics at forming scrums. Would have liked to see him FK them for time wasting if for no other reason than for the 20,000 people who paid to watch a pretty ordinary stop start game that should have delivered more from the defending champs.

The Force deserved their win but the fine line between a pack having sufficient time to safely form a scrum and just plain dicking about was pushed to the limit.

Will see how the other refs performed when the replays are shown.

 

[The Fat]

So round one is done and dusted and everyone was a little rusty, players AND referees.
Haven't seen every game and tried to watch some through bleary eyes while switching between 6N and SA games this morning so looking forward to seeing replays of the games missed during the week.
In amongst some ordinary ball handling and many stoppages that could be expected in week one there were several strange decisions from the refs. In particular a catcher taken out in the air (Sharks v Cheetahs) and Andrew Lees simply played the knock-on after the catcher spilled the ball as he crashed to earth. There were a few other breakdowns where Andrew Lees seemed to have only one line, "In from the side".
In the Waratahs woeful display against the Western Force, Steve Walsh made a couple of errors.
1. Force player looks certain to score after a charge down had gone in-goal and knocks the ball forward where Waratahs touch it down. SW initially (correctly) looks to be setting a 5m scrum with Tahs to feed. He then changes his call and allows the Tahs a 22 DO.
2. Force kick off and the ball goes into Tahs' in-goal where Kurtley (I f@%&#d up everything I touched today except this one) Beale dots it down and starts pointing, along with Adam Ashley-Cooper, and running towards the centre for the scrum but SW awards a 22 DO.
3. SW was clearly becoming frustrated with the Western Force's go slow tactics at forming scrums. Would have liked to see him FK them for time wasting if for no other reason than for the 20,000 people who paid to watch a pretty ordinary stop start game that should have delivered more from the defending champs.

The Force deserved their win but the fine line between a pack having sufficient time to safely form a scrum and just plain dicking about was pushed to the limit.

Will see how the other refs performed when the replays are shown.

Good to see SArefs onto this
http://www.sareferees.com/News/law-discussion-getting-it-wrong/2830353/

 

[crossref]

In all cases the commentators are pretty clueless

 

[Browner]

1. Force player looks certain to score after a charge down had gone in-goal and knocks the ball forward

The Fat, my first thought when I saw this was that its such an unbelievable 'no score' that had it been another sport I would have immediately suspected a first try or first knock on betting fix/scam !!!

watch the clip again did we see a wink at 9.11 on the clock ....I hope not, but it wouldnt be the first - stranger things have happened.

 

[Browner]

SA refs example 4, reignites the "no offside line following a NoRuck" discussion.

Its arguable that a Ruck did exist, as the Tackle Assist was cleared out (albeit he might be considered as having already backed away voluntarily), nevertheless this issue is not going to go away, Lawmakers need to address it ASAP.

 

[crossref]

nevertheless this issue is not going to go away, Lawmakers need to address it ASAP.

what's the issue they need to address ? I don't see an issue with the Laws per se. In practice there will be situaitons where it's not completely clear if a rick formed or not, and I ageree with SA Refs that good refereeing in those circs is to recogniuse the room for uncertaintly and shout 'ruck' or 'tackle only' as per how you judge it.

 

[Browner]

what's the issue they need to address ? I don't see an issue with the Laws per se. In practice there will be situaitons where it's not completely clear if a rick formed or not, and I ageree with SA Refs that good refereeing in those circs is to recogniuse the room for uncertaintly and shout 'ruck' or 'tackle only' as per how you judge it.

I disagree strongly that the only way for this subject to be addressed is for all referees to have to shout " 'ruck' or 'tackle only' " at every contact between players ....... This rugby by 'permanent verbal referee instruction' at a decibel level that every player will always hear (amid player & spectator noise) is neither practical, nor desireable IMHO.

We've seen 'NoRucks' form and Elite referees pointing to players needing to be behind the HMF ! I believe that elite is heading toward chaos on this subject as defenders merge with attackers in such a unstructured way.

I note your belief Crossref, time will tell, I'm prepared to wager that this won't resolve without significant Law clarification/change and that a slide rule interpretation status quo won't suffice. As the SArefs clip shows it is an issue.

In the subject clip, there wasn't 'any' referee instruction, and in the absence of the same x5 red players all headed back towards the 'perceived/expected' offside line, none of them headed to pressurise the potential blue receivers, indeed picture the mess if they had all intermingled with the blues whilst claiming "no ruck surely ref"

 

[Phil E]

Good to see SArefs onto this
http://www.sareferees.com/News/law-discussion-getting-it-wrong/2830353/

On Number two, does Kurtley Beal press down on the ball, or does he just pick it up?

[LAWS]22.2 Picking up the ball
Picking up the ball from the ground is not grounding it. A player may pick up the ball in the in-goal and ground it elsewhere in the in-goal.[/LAWS]

Clear, Obvious and Expected means we would (probably) all give the options. But just wondered?

 

[OB..]

I disagree strongly that the only way for this subject to be addressed is for all referees to have to shout " 'ruck' or 'tackle only' " at every contact between players

That was not the proposal. "Recognise the room for uncertainty". It seems to be happening already, much of the time.

 

[crossref]

I disagree strongly that the only way for this subject to be addressed is for all referees to have to shout " 'ruck' or 'tackle only' " at every contact between players ....... This rugby by 'permanent verbal referee instruction' is neither practical, nor desireable IMHO.

We've seen 'NoRucks' form and Elite referees pointing to players needing to be behind the HMF ! I believe that elite is heading toward chaos on this subject as defenders merge with attackers in such a unstructured way.

I note your belief Crossref, time will tell, I'm prepared to wager that this won't resolve without significant Law clarification/change and that a slide rule interpretation status quo won't suffice. As the SArefs clip shows it is an issue.

I

the ref only needs to shout when the situation is unclear.
this is no different from other calls you might make like 'touched by blue', 'went backwards' , 'taken back in', 'not held, no tackle'

to clarify other on-edge scenarios where you have made a fine judgement, and you will know that it's not obvious to the players what fine judgement you have made, unless you tell them.



you'll still have to explain to me : what is the issue that you see with the Laws, and what change would you make? Are you proposing an off-side line at the tackle ? as that's been tried before and didn't improve the game.

 

[Browner]

That was not the proposal. "Recognise the room for uncertainty". It seems to be happening already, much of the time.

I hear you.
Did you see how quickly the slide rule needed to come out, watch criticism grow and ref credibility suffer out of this.
Time will tell.

In the interim expect many many examples to follow those we've already seen.

 

[The Fat]

On Number two, does Kurtley Beal press down on the ball, or does he just pick it up?

[LAWS]22.2 Picking up the ball
Picking up the ball from the ground is not grounding it. A player may pick up the ball in the in-goal and ground it elsewhere in the in-goal.[/LAWS]

Clear, Obvious and Expected means we would (probably) all give the options. But just wondered?

Well spotted Phil. When I watched the game live I was sure he dotted down. Looking at the video it is not clear as there is a cut-away just as he picks it up. If he just picked it up the ref should have called play on. Beale and Ashley-Cooper must have thought he dotted down and both obviously knew the law.
SW tries to cover up his decision by saying to Beale, "It has to go dead mate". WTF?
Two basic calls ballsed up by SW in this game, the other being the knock on in in-goal. If he changed his decision on the knock-on based on something his AR said that confused him, then two things need to happen.
1. AR needs to be taken out and flogged and
2. SW, who initially gives the correct decision, needs to re-acquaint himself with the law book so he can tell his AR "No, you're wrong" and not be swayed by bad advice.

 

[winchesterref]

Just catching up, Naiyaravoro is a big fella! :fiji:
Is he going to be residency qualified for elsewhere (Aus?) or do his previous appearances for Fiji age groups rule him out? Can't remember the qualification rules.

 

[Browner]

Just catching up, Naiyaravoro is a big fella! :fiji:
Is he going to be residency qualified for elsewhere (Aus?) or do his previous appearances for Fiji age groups rule him out? Can't remember the qualification rules.

Give him a pencil case and a pad of A4,

?!!!!!!!!!!