Tackled without the ball?

[The umpire]

Just watched the Ospreys v Blues game and among the decisions of Mr Hodges was a very odd one indeed. O's wing has the ball between his goal line and 22. He stars to runout and then decides to kick. Milli-seconds after releasing the ball, he gets tackled and can't complete the kick. Mr. H then penalises Blue for "tackling the man without he ball" :wtf:
He even goes on to explain that it's a penalty as he was tackled before he completed the kick!
I didn't have the English commentary on but the Welsh commentator's opinion was 'Nonsense!'

 

[FightOrFlight]

The standard of referees coming from Wales to the Pro12 is not great at the minute. Hodges can look behind the game when he refs the top sides in the league. Ian Davies looked totally lost last week at the Aviva too...was well behind the curve and was picking up on 2nd and even 3rd offence on many occasions.

St Nigel has had a dip too! :shrug:

 

[Browner]

Just watched the Ospreys v Blues game and among the decisions of Mr Hodges was a very odd one indeed. O's wing has the ball between his goal line and 22. He stars to runout and then decides to kick. Milli-seconds after releasing the ball, he gets tackled and can't complete the kick. Mr. H then penalises Blue for "tackling the man without he ball" :wtf:
He even goes on to explain that it's a penalty as he was tackled before he completed the kick!
I didn't have the English commentary on but the Welsh commentator's opinion was 'Nonsense!'

As described, its a peculiar decision indeed.

I don't buy FightFlights 'welsh refs' general opinion

 

[FightOrFlight]

As described, its a peculiar decision indeed.

I don't buy FightFlights 'welsh refs' general opinion

Perhaps I'm being harsh....standard in the Pro12 in general has taken a dip. It seems there is a push on to try and get a few Italians and Scots up to standard. Year before last they had 2 Italians if I recall that they pushed and who failed to meet the standard. There seems to be too much of a project outlook to Pro12 selection.

 

[Taff]

The standard of referees coming from Wales to the Pro12 is not great at the minute. Hodges can look behind the game when he refs the top sides in the league.

I haven't seen this game, but in fairness Leighton Hodges is usually pretty impressive. In fact I think he's refereed 3 or 4 minor internationals.

Perhaps I'm being harsh....standard in the Pro12 in general has taken a dip. It seems there is a push on to try and get a few Italians and Scots up to standard.

Inclined to agree. The Italian Ref in the last Scarlets match didn't have a good game - but it wasn't as bas as some of the commentators made out, because some incidents were just down to players (and former players / commentators) not knowing the laws.

 

[FightOrFlight]

I haven't seen this game, but in fairness Leighton Hodges is usually pretty impressive. In fact I think he's refereed 3 or 4 minor internationals.

US v Russia
Wolfhounds v Fiji
US V Romania
Canada v Japan

...and the infamous Fiji v Italy - how many Fijians can you fit in a sin bin game.

You'd get a better test in the Pro12

Inclined to agree. The Italian Ref in the last Scarlets match didn't have a good game - but it wasn't as bas as some of the commentators made out, because some incidents were just down to players (and former players / commentators) not knowing the laws.

There are better referees from Celtic nations who cannot make panels because of them however.

 

[Pegleg]

As described, its a peculiar decision indeed.

I don't buy FightFlights 'welsh refs' general opinion

Indeed coming from the country that gave PF and GC. That aside the standards in the Pro 12 are shocking. And LH today was dreadful. The Penalty referred to above was a joke as was the "balancing" YC in the 80th minute. along with the TMO referral at the end.

A league with non neutral officials is a joke. but sadly the Scots and the Italians are woefully inadequate and the League will not pay for a team of three to fly so we get, for example: Leinster V Scarlets Referee WELSH TJ & TMO IRISH. Utter nonsense. Still you get what you are prepared to pay for.

 

[Pegleg]

I haven't seen this game, but in fairness Leighton Hodges is usually pretty impressive. In fact I think he's refereed 3 or 4 minor internationals.


Inclined to agree. The Italian Ref in the last Scarlets match didn't have a good game - but it wasn't as bas as some of the commentators made out, because some incidents were just down to players (and former players / commentators) not knowing the laws.

Taff, he was shocking, and was in the Fiji game referred to above. When you get 4 player in the bin at the same time you are doing something wrong. Where's the red?

I don't support any of the regions. so can speak as someone disinterested in that respect.

 

[The umpire]

Perhaps I'm being harsh....standard in the Pro12 in general has taken a dip. It seems there is a push on to try and get a few Italians and Scots up to standard. Year before last they had 2 Italians if I recall that they pushed and who failed to meet the standard. There seems to be too much of a project outlook to Pro12 selection.

No, you're not being harsh. Owens, his alleged form dip notwithstanding, is about the only half decent one I see these days. (I rarely see the one Scottish ref as he doesn't get the games in which I have an interest, so can't comment) but the Irish, Welsh and Italian refs are generally very poor indeed. Yes,some have done internationals, but frankly it's mystery to me how. Weight of numbers, I suppose?

 

[FightOrFlight]

No, you're not being harsh. Owens, his alleged form dip notwithstanding, is about the only half decent one I see these days. (I rarely see the one Scottish ref as he doesn't get the games in which I have an interest, so can't comment) but the Irish, Welsh and Italian refs are generally very poor indeed. Yes,some have done internationals, but frankly it's mystery to me how. Weight of numbers, I suppose?

The issue in the Rabo as I see it is the wild variation in games and standards. You could have the Dragons v Zebre and then an Irish interpro the next week.

As I said a good example is Ian Evans looking absolutely out of his depth at the Aviva doing Leinster V Munster and his lack of experience of such an intense game with a large crowd and tense atmosphere did have an effect on the game as he managed the breakdown badly in the first half and was missing first offences and often penalising the wrong team.

Another issue that perhaps is a little more political is the seeming refusal for a Union to admit a referee is not up to the standard and perhaps needs a bit more time at domestic level to get there.

 

[Pegleg]

Fair post there FightorFlight

 

[FightOrFlight]

Keeping my Hodges bashing to one thread he had a real stinker today in the Leinster v Wasps game. I was at the match and he looked out of control for long periods. He never took charge of anything and was left behind by the pace a lot of the time. He made some real puzzlers at the breakdown awarding Wasps a PK and giving the signal for holding on. Problem was the ball was at Reddan's(Leinster 9) feet and he was looking up for the on coming carrier....a Wasps hand off their feet played the ball on the ground and it was dragged back towards the pile of bodies. Leinster protest and up goes the hand for a PK to Wasps followed by the the holding in signal, an impossibility given the circumstances.

Lineouts were VERY badly managed on a number of levels. At a good 80% of Wasps lineouts they had tea and biscuits meetings and following this the hooker took an age to throw the ball in. Hodges stood at the back in the zipper position for all of them keeping out of the way and giving faint gestures to the hooker to get on with it. Moving to the front and FKing him after the 3rd or 4th one would have cut this out. The Wasps 2 jumper was stepping in to the gap on every lineout almost...the AR had it copped and was gesturing for him to open it up but Hodges never dealt with it.
As is par for the course both teams being Pro swarmed on what he was letting go and this lead to very hectic and sometimes very illegal play. Both teams we flying off feet at the breakdown and were getting away with it. There were several armless entries to rucks and numerous charges from the side.
Wasps seemed to cop that in the lineout maul every time the maul went down they were given PK advantage even if it had not been pulled down. This entered the realms of farce when Ashley Johnson(Wasps) after the first maul stoppage was trying to get to ground and Toner(Leinster) was trying to keep him up. Johnson finally got himself to ground and the rest of the Wasps players went with him and out went the arm for PK advantage to Wasps, Toner still trying to hold him up.

Like I said earlier in this thread he looks out of his depth at this level and this is not the first time he as looked as such. He struggles in the Rabo and reviews of his international work is not too much better. I wonder why a referee who is openly struggling is not dropped down to domestic level for a bit to try and plug the gaps. Hodges is not the only one with whom this is a problem in my view.
I was at a game a few years back in the All Ireland League(top domestic competition here) The ref was national panel with a mid level and a grassroots level TJ team. Ref did his hammy about 20mins in to the 2nd half and the game stopped. There was no appointed sub ref and the mid level TJ seemed to have no interest so the grassroots ref was handed the whistle. He did well considering but he was a rabbit in the headlights and that is what some of the referees in the Rabo look like to me.

I saw the Sarries game, Ulster game and Leinster today and none of the referees inspired confidence....

 

[The umpire]

While we're bashing Rabo refs, Clancy didn't get a very good report either. . .