[Law] Wales v Georgia Gareth Davies deliverate knock-on or not

[CrouchTPEngage]

Hope you can see this video link ( Upon feedback I can alter )
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D48vEkjc93M-btXrVa-aDow6oxvDxVAK/view?usp=sharing_eil&ts=5d88abec

Georgia break the line and , initially, it looks like Gareth Davies sticks out a hand (no attempt to catch) and prevents the pass. Commentators are immediately saying "This could be a yellow card".
Luke Pearce then , after seeing the video reply, decides that , because the ball has traveled backwards, it cannot be a knock-on. Lucky for Gareth Davies as it was a very risky thing to do.

In a game at my level ,I would have probably have given this as a knock-on and a YC.

My issue is the inconsistency of this interpretation with the forward pass law. In the above case, the ball goes backwards relative to the goal-lines but given Davies' momentum, it goes forward relative to Davies' hands.

When we judge a forward-pass, we are told to evaluate relative to the passer's hands and not consider the relative to the goal-lines motion. The player's momentum is considered and taken into account. Quite right too !

In this knock-on decision, it looks like the referee has NOT considered the relative-motion-to-the-hands reasoning.

Agree?

 

[Pablo]

I think LP made the right call, and much credit to him for admitting a mistake and moving on.

In this instance:

• the ball went backwards
• Gareth Davies was also travelling backwards
• GD's hand was moving down, more than forward relative to him

All those factors combine to make a "knock-on" a very tough call to sell. We all talk about "making the expected call", and once the TMO had got involved with slow-mo, yellow carding GD for a ball that went towards his own DBL was never going to happen.

Do instances like this make the momentum interpretation inconsistent? Maybe, but I can't see it being problematic in most circumstances.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

The call was spot on. Well done Luke. I think he had a very good game. HOWEVER, he allowed Wales to blatently feed the back row at scrum time. Shocking!

 

[Flish]

Freely admit at first glance I thought it was a KO that he had no real chance of catching and was in trouble, and mayhap he's been lucky, but right call in the end. Thought that Luke and the team did well, the challenge in the air, a try that could have been referred but wasn't, etc

 

[crossref]

In real time that's a knock on and a YC

Once the TMO is involved then we are Hawk Eye..

It went backward over the ground, but on the other hand he increased the forward velocity (reduced the backward velocity)

That is the scenario that I argued with OB.. about a while ago

By the momentum view it's a knock on .. but

 

[CrouchTPEngage]

Yep. Fairly risky and reckless thing to do. He could have easily been yellow-carded doing that next time.
Like I said, in my level, I dont get TMO replays, so I would probably have given it a knock-on and I would be surprised if anyone complained.
Interesting point - on momentum. Needs a law clarification maybe ?

 

[OB..]

In real time that's a knock on and a YC

Once the TMO is involved then we are Hawk Eye..

It went backward over the ground, but on the other hand he increased the forward velocity (reduced the backward velocity)

That is the scenario that I argued with OB.. about a while ago

By the momentum view it's a knock on .. but

To be fair to Luke, his first question was "Did it go forward?" Even without the TMO he might have decided it was not C&O.

With a pass, the ball initially has the same forward speed as the player. With an attempted interception it doesn't.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

The very next phase Davies fluffs an intercept but looked a mile offside!

 

[Rich_NL]

I agree, forward passes are judged using momentum and knock-ons are judged relative to the ground.

It's what's in the law book (which was rewritten to clarify the momentum matter for forward passes), it's apparently what top tier refs use, it's what I was taught, so it's what I use too. I wasn't aware that it was a point of discussion!

However, this instance in real time is far from C&O, and I may well have erroneously called the knock-on. And probably had little complaint.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

More of a problem with Davies is his dummying at the base and his ignoring refs when told to "use it". Yet the referees let him get away with it. Let's not mention his feeding of the NO 8 at the scrums.