And that's fair enough too and was just wondering if there were other reasons that escaped me. Although I think the SH could still figure it out themselves ...except at the elite level so it's probably more for them than for grassroots!:biggrin:In order to get rid of the hit, which was aimed at destabilising the scrum, you MUST have a pause after the engagement. If you allow the scrum half to determine that, you will get the hit return through the back door. The referee needs to determine when the scrum is steady and correctly aligned. That is best done by giving some indication to the scrum half that he may now throw the ball in.
US we are instructed to stay out of it if the 9 can handle the task properly.
no instruction from canada yet on the y9 - mandatory or not.
CorrectCan someone clarify for the exact position of the hooker's feet. [I assume] that they are both on the ground before the ball is put in by the No9.
Correct again sir.Also - am I right in saying that the No8 from each team must have his head engaged in the scrum BEFORE the call of Crouch. Simply binding on with arms with your head in the air is not OK?
It is physically possible to have both arms binding correctly but have your head up.Also - am I right in saying that the No8 from each team must have his head engaged in the scrum BEFORE the call of Crouch. Simply binding on with arms with your head in the air is not OK?
It is physically possible to have both arms binding correctly but have your head up.
The #8 does not really bind on a lock's body, but on his hips/thighs, so the situation is not well defined, however it does not specify that he must have his head down.
I see your logic, but the IRB made a specific bullet point of making sure that the 2nd Rows and No 8 were fully bound before the engagement.Do you agree that now that the scrum shove can't happen on the engage, then whether the 8 binds with 'head in' prior to 'Set' matters not anymore. As long as he's bound in before the ball is released/fed , then that's all that matters - right?
The following has come from Rugby Quebec. The referee tells the No 9 to put in the ball("yes 9"). The ball to be put in straight and right away. There is also a reminder in the summary of the document that the 9 has to put the ball in immediately and down the middle of the scrum once the referee says "yes 9". Nothing on how loud, invitation/instruction or how much delay is acceptable. Our senior season has just finished, so they didn't use it. The college and university seasons have just started, and have implemented it. Sorry for the crappy formatting of this post. I don't seem to be able to fix it.US we are instructed to stay out of it if the 9 can handle the task properly.
no instruction from canada yet on the y9 - mandatory or not.
My son is a scrum half. First league game of the season yesterday, society appointed ref, he told them that he doesn't agree withYes9 as it is like a red flag for the defending pack, and the scrum halves should judge for themselves when the scrum is stationary and stable, and put the ball in.
Which is what happened
Hmmm.
My advice to coaches and players this season is to anticipate this type of confusion and listen carefully to the pre match brief
Doesn't help with the consistency from week to week does it! Is there a route for clubs to inform society officials about it so it can be pressed home a bit more firmly? I don't mean snitching...! But maybe that referee has only read this via email and not been to a meeting recently or something, maybe needs the ideas behind the changes discussed with them directly?
I don't really know how societies deal with referees not doing what is expected of them, any ideas?
Rich, you got some feedback on this, but given that you are just starting out I thought you could do with having it fleshed out a bit. Taff gave you chapter and verse on the hookers' foot. I imagine that your concern stems from the practice of hookers to form up with their striking foot ahead of their standing foot, to ensure that their hips are in the correct position to strike once the ball comes in. At lower and junior levels, many try to keep that foot in the channel when they set.Can someone clarify for the exact position of the hooker's feet...assuming that they are both on the ground before the ball is put in by the No9.
Also - am I right in saying that the No8 from each team must have his head engaged in the scrum BEFORE the call of Crouch. Simply binding on with arms with your head in the air is not OK?
Rich, you got some feedback on this, but given that you are just starting out I thought you could do with having it fleshed out a bit. Taff gave you chapter and verse on the hookers' foot. I imagine that your concern stems from the practice of hookers to form up with their striking foot ahead of their standing foot, to ensure that their hips are in the correct position to strike once the ball comes in. At lower and junior levels, many try to keep that foot in the channel when they set.
As to the #8's head, OB's advice is more precise than Taff's. There is no law that requires the #8 to insert his head at any time in any scrum. The only requiremetn is that he bind to a 2nd row with at least one arm, though two is permitted. You mjay be thinking of the Slingshot - a practice a few years ago whereby #8 would pull back his locks until the Engage call, and then drive them forward to increase the power of the "hit". As the "hit" has been depowered (ideally eliminated) this season, there is absolutely no need for this - so the prohibition on it remains in place, though Browner is right that tactically, there is no reason to do it any more. Old habits die hard, however.
Thanks Dixie for fleshing that one out for me. You must have been on the side lines as that's exactly what was going on;
absolutely - the match in question was actually an U14s match (I also coach U14s) and I noted that both hookers had a foot forward, in the channel. I did ping it for "foot up" even though their feet were on the ground on exactly the basis that you describe - as the channel was "blocked" before the ball went in. I then went on to explain to them that I needed a clear channel.
After the match one of the coaches "told me" that it was OK to put one foot in front of the other but that the heel of the front foot must not go past the toe of the other foot.... which I have to say I raised an eyebrow at as nowhere have I ever read this as a law....He is however our forwards' coach so wanted to get the definitive answer from you guys before I set him right!! :chair:
am seeking clarification from our "chapter" of the LSRFUR, but yes, again, I was looking at the slingshotting, which is obviously a waste of time now.