the Chiefs

[L'irlandais]

I wonder where it will all go. I thought to say "end up" but maybe it will never end up:

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The earliest known chess pieces date from 761 AD. The game had been around hundreds of years at that stage. Earliest notations spoke of Red versus Black. The white goes first rule dates from 1880, when a Jewish Hungarian suggested the rule at a new York tournament. To overcome any advantage of playing first, players must play an equal number of games as black. A little like Rugby when you think about it, if you kick off the first half, you will be receiving in the second half. Racism exists. Absurdity too. So chess isn’t racist, people are.

Mr Adams told Ben Fordham the argument has been circulating in chess circles for years.

A Sydney-based ABC producer asked former Australian Chess representative John Adams to comment on whether the game was racist because white always moves first.
His reply : “All of this stuff is completely ridiculous. We’ve got bigger issues that are facing Australia and I don’t want the ABC talking about this sort of nonsense.”

Issues like the denying the history of policy differentiation and violence towards Indigenous Australians. Labels can be used in an exclusionary, often derogatory fashion to refer to a social group.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Why pathetic? Is it because "blues" is a style of music that should not be culturally appropriated? :shrug:

It just does not work and was done for the wrong, political, reasons (which I'll not bore you with). The only part that is appropriate is the business is likely to cause a dose of "the blues" in its supporters.

 

[L'irlandais]

The Welsh franchises were created in 2003. Welsh rugby has had great success (4 Grand Slams) on the back of these changes. However the financial stability never materialized, which is a shame.
Irish rugby has since 1995 tried to copy the structure of New Zealand. Only the four provinces went Professional with the creation of franchises to give the National team coach better control over key players.
Scotland has only two pro-teams, one under private and one under SRU control. The original 4 Province setup never really took root there.
Italian franchises have struggled too. Partly because Rome insists on holding one of the Pro spots, while the rugby heartland has always been in the North.

 

[Camquin]

I admit that the Welsh and Irish national teams have done well out of the franchise system.
But how has the club game held up - and hw is the flow of Under 7s into tag rugby.
But that is a different discussion.

But Cardiff needed to differentiate the professional saide form the club.
Cf Scarlets and Llanelli, Sale Sharks and Sale FC, London Irish and LI Wild Geese.
At least it is not completely pointless like Brstol Bears.

 

[Dickie E]

Cardiff was always the Blue and BLacks. When we had the "regional dream" they became "The Cardiff Blues" The marketing dept, the union and the BBC Try to force it to "the Blues". You can't chant "BLUES" it comes over as "BOOOOOOOOS!" Slipshod work.

Why not Cardiff with a nickname or Bedford with the nickname. Just as Manchester United Manchester United but their nickname is the Red Devils or the reds.

Americanised Marketing nonsense for me. I only use the word "b lues" to establish context between the Regional Outfit "Cardiff Blues" and the Semi pro side "Cardiff RFC". All part of th same club despite the propaganda.

So you're OK with Manchester United Reds but not Cardiff Blues? I think I'm missing something.

At least a colour has an association with the team, if only to reflect the colour of their jersey. Where does the likes of Western Force and Melbourne Storm come from?

 

[SimonSmith]

Reds is a colloquial name - usually Red Devils.

Blues is the formal name.

 

[Dickie E]

Reds is a colloquial name - usually Red Devils.

Blues is the formal name.

OK. So if everyone calls Edward Ted, that is fine. But if his parents had christened him Ted, that is not fine. Is this the gist of it? Seems needlessly picky to me.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

So you're OK with Manchester United Reds but not Cardiff Blues? I think I'm missing something.

At least a colour has an association with the team, if only to reflect the colour of their jersey. Where does the likes of Western Force and Melbourne Storm come from?

They are not the Manchester United Reds. They are Manchester United. Their nickname is the Red Devils. Yes you ate missing something very obvious.

I have no interest in either of Western Force or Melbourne Storm. I have, therefore, no idea about the origin of their names.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

OK. So if everyone calls Edward Ted, that is fine. But if his parents had christened him Ted, that is not fine. Is this the gist of it? Seems needlessly picky to me.

If he was christened TED that would be his name. Whether it is daft or not is opinion. Cardiff had a perfectly good name until 2003 when Moffat stuck his oar in. The change to Cardiff Blues (or as some wanted just Blues) was done to create a false image (marketing gimmickery) We'd manage without the Blues bit for well over 100 years thanks.

 

[Rich_NL]

Exeter have only been the Chiefs for, what, 20 years? It's hardly an age-old tradition handed down from father to son. And combined with the branding and the Tomahawk chop... I can't see it standing the test of time.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

I admit that the Welsh and Irish national teams have done well out of the franchise system.
But how has the club game held up - and hw is the flow of Under 7s into tag rugby.
But that is a different discussion.

But Cardiff needed to differentiate the professional saide form the club.
Cf Scarlets and Llanelli, Sale Sharks and Sale FC, London Irish and LI Wild Geese.
At least it is not completely pointless like Brstol Bears.

The Scarlets were always the Scarlets. They just name the pro outfit with the nickname that was accociated with the club.
The whole of Welsh rugby, below the national side, is in a mess.

Bristol have had so many pointless names they whole club is confused. I remember a pre-season game where the scoreboard stated "Bristol Shoguns" but the programme called them "Bristol Rugby". The fans? Well they said it was "Brizzle".

 

[Dickie E]

They are not the Manchester United Reds. They are Manchester United. Their nickname is the Red Devils. Yes you ate missing something very obvious.

I have no interest in either of Western Force or Melbourne Storm. I have, therefore, no idea about the origin of their names.

I'm guessing this is one of them thar "first world problems". Not sure how we segued from cultural appropriation to "I don't like my team's name".

 

[crossref]

I stand in solidarity with the Na'vi

 

[TigerCraig]

If he was christened TED that would be his name. Whether it is daft or not is opinion. Cardiff had a perfectly good name until 2003 when Moffat stuck his oar in. The change to Cardiff Blues (or as some wanted just Blues) was done to create a false image (marketing gimmickery) We'd manage without the Blues bit for well over 100 years thanks.

I think its a cultural difference. In Australia (like the US) sports teams have been the "Something Somethings" as a formal name for well over a hundred years. Its a newer phenomenon in the UK where informal nicknames have been the thing.

Whats got a lot of casual observers here confused in Super Rugby, and along with unfriendly time zones hasn't helped lift interest, is the use of a "Logo name" without a geographic name. The Highlanders v The Lions is meaningless, whereas even a non-rugby person can place Otago v Transvaal (and yes I know the reason is that in many cases the teams are amalgams of a number of unions)

 

[L'irlandais]

I thought we were discussing our cultural appréciation for the Welsh.
[LAWS]4.0 Rugby really is a religion that we get over-invested and over-emotional about.[/LAWS]

Caerwysg Chiefs has a nicer ring to it. :wales:

 

[Dickie E]

I think its a cultural difference. In Australia (like the US) sports teams have been the "Something Somethings" as a formal name for well over a hundred years. Its a newer phenomenon in the UK where informal nicknames have been the thing.

Whats got a lot of casual observers here confused in Super Rugby, and along with unfriendly time zones hasn't helped lift interest, is the use of a "Logo name" without a geographic name. The Highlanders v The Lions is meaningless, whereas even a non-rugby person can place Otago v Transvaal (and yes I know the reason is that in many cases the teams are amalgams of a number of unions)

I wonder how the Japanese go with the Yakult Swallows, Orix Buffaloes and Chunichi Dragons

 

[TigerCraig]

I wonder how the Japanese go with the Yakult Swallows, Orix Buffaloes and Chunichi Dragons

When I was there I played the Coca-Cola West Red Sparks and tge Kyushu Power Voltex old boys

 

[crossref]

I think its a cultural difference. In Australia (like the US) sports teams have been the "Something Somethings" as a formal name for well over a hundred years. Its a newer phenomenon in the UK where informal nicknames have been the thing.

Whats got a lot of casual observers here confused in Super Rugby, and along with unfriendly time zones hasn't helped lift interest, is the use of a "Logo name" without a geographic name. The Highlanders v The Lions is meaningless, whereas even a non-rugby person can place Otago v Transvaal (and yes I know the reason is that in many cases the teams are amalgams of a number of unions)

English rugby has always had non geographic names
Harlequins, Saracens , Grasshoppers , Wasps survive to this day . Founding members of the RFu included flamingoes, gipsies, mohicans

There are many others

 

[TigerCraig]

English rugby has always had non geographic names
Harlequins, Saracens , Grasshoppers , Wasps survive to this day . Founding members of the RFu included flamingoes, gipsies, mohicans

There are many others

I know, thats why I said "in Australia". Here you might get a Wanderers or Brothers at community level but its generally Place Mascot

 

[crossref]

My point was those names I gave were never nicknames . They are the official, historic names of the clubs.
It has always been common in England to have clubs that are not geographic. other examples are work based (civil service, police, law society etc) , old boys clubs, and some ethnic clubs
London Welsh, Irish, scottics etc etc