1st Senior Game - what a baptism

[Mickman]

Refereed my first senior game in London yesterday (only my 16th ish) game ever after doing mainly junior games back home and a few here in SE London since I arrived from AUS in November.

Bit of info: I was reserve call up. Lower league Merit game (L12). Away team late (stuck in traffic) 14:45 KO instead of 14:15. No front row for away team - uncontested scrums. Both teams short, game started with 13 a piece. Field was worst I have ever seen (we obviously have it too good in AUS...). AND I am running one touchline as well as refereeing (could not talk either of the remaining 2 spectators to even 'walk' touch on the far side of the pitch for me.

Game starts ok - away team put some early points on the board, home team starts to get a bit flustered. THEN get even more frustrated when I start to penalise for tackler not releasing tackled player/ rolling out and 'tackler' being on wrong side of tackle when remaining on feet (tackle without 'tackler'). Main reason being is that they believe they have rights to the ball if on their feet, only precursor being that their tacklers are lying in the ruck, using their bodies to prevent tackled player from playing the ball.

SO, the chat begins. Red (home team) cannot for the life of them understand why they are being penalised... (at this stage I realise that if I was being assessed, I would have been 'chipped' for trying to exlain (on a number of occasions - at stoppages) that their tacklers need to release/ roll or stand up, or not for :noyc: someone to keep it quiet and maintain a bit more order.

Half-time chat with captain to explain what is expected. Seems to understand. However STILL does not improve situation once play resumes....

About 50th minute: scuffle occurred between 2 players on the bottom of ruck after play had moved to opposite side of pitch (I did not see anything as I was following play). BUT ofcourse the most frustrated player from home (red) team was involved and probably started it - spoke to captain, no sanction as did not see it (following play on far side of pitch).

79 minutes later I am still hearing red "HE'S NOT RELEASING!!!!!", my communication at ruck "red 15 release", "BUT I AM ON MY FEET!!!" (on feet but wrong side of tackle, hands on ball, without releasing tackled player). I am OVER IT (was over it at about the 60 minute mark...).

The long and the short of it - tight game probably added to the frustration. 26-23 away team.

Home (Red) team was ok once they had showered got some food and we had a chat - the outcome of which I am now heading back on Tuesday night for law session.

So I am looking forward even more to having an advisor as promised to help improve my game and up my level a bit (11 + 1) at the moment.

Finding refereeing seniors is going to be much more of an isolating experience than it is back home.

So at this stage I am feeling that since I have four more games in the current round of appointments, I am going to see how they go, if it's a case of more of the same, I am out and am going to stick with Sunday juniors at local club - where i get the suppport of referee co-ordinator, team coaches and spectators, and get to just watch our 1sts team on Saturdays.

 

[KML1]

Good job. Never easy. And you'll learn from it. Onwards and upwards!! :biggrin:

 

[Dickie E]

Remember that they're Poms. Explain slowly with words of one sylable or less.

If all else fails try:

"u lil chav fagot, ill ****n bang u, innit"

 

[Davet]

At the lower levels of English rugby there is a fond belief, which appears unshakeable, that at the tackle or in a ruck, so long as you are on your feet you're OK.

No idea why, I have had many many "discussions" at this level, and they simply never believe me, or any of the 100s of other refs that have told them the same thing.

If I'd had a pound for every time I've had the following exchange I'd probbaly be able to retire.

"I'm on my FEET! Sir."

"I don't care - it's a RUCK!, Back 10!"

 

[Phil E]

Remember that they're Poms. Explain slowly with words of one sylable or less.

If all else fails try:

"u lil chav fagot, ill ****n bang u, innit"

Ashes.

 

[talbazar]

My 2 cents worth.
You may want to add that to your pre-game chat. Just to make sure they got your point before the play starts.

And as a side remark, the lower the level, the harder it probably is... When they reach a certain level, players tend to know the law better

Keep it up thought.

Cheers,
Pierre.

 

[Phil E]

Home (Red) team was ok once they had showered got some food and we had a chat - the outcome of which I am now heading back on Tuesday night for law session.

That is a "positive" right there, hang on to it. :clap:

So at this stage I am feeling that since I have four more games in the current round of appointments, I am going to see how they go, if it's a case of more of the same, I am out and am going to stick with Sunday juniors at local club

If you stick with the juniors (fun as they are) you are not going to improve yourself as a referee.

This game sounded like a management issue and as you move up through the levels management becomes more and more important. I suspect that in your next four games you will have at least one cracking game; and that will leave you begging for more. There's no fun in life without a challenge :wink:

 

[Mickman]

Thanks for positive words people.
Is included in , my pre-game chat:
1. Captain only player who chats to me (@stoppages);
2. CTPE sequences (mayday drill/ call - have found this non-existent in the UK BTW - very worrying considering most of my games have been junior fixtures);
3. Looking at 10 to manage his backs onside at scrum and line out;
4. Tackler roll or get to feet, tackled player exercises option immediately ONCE tackler clears - in other words I am not going to penalise tackled player for holding on until AFTER your tackler has cleared - player(s) on feet do not have rights to ball until tackler has cleared;
5. Any questions?? Usually gets 'crickets' :chin: or when is the ball out? Reply: If unsure, ask and I'll let you know.

That's it. Too much for some :wow: but it takes me less than a minute... and I have found it helps me set up some basic form of management.

 

[Phil E]

player(s) on feet do not have rights to ball until tackler has cleared;

Why not?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Thanks for positive words people.
Is included in , my pre-game chat:
1. Captain only player who chats to me (@stoppages);
2. CTPE sequences (mayday drill/ call - have found this non-existent in the UK BTW - very worrying considering most of my games have been junior fixtures);
3. Looking at 10 to manage his backs onside at scrum and line out;
4. Tackler roll or get to feet, tackled player exercises option immediately ONCE tackler clears - in other words I am not going to penalise tackled player for holding on until AFTER your tackler has cleared - player(s) on feet do not have rights to ball until tackler has cleared;
5. Any questions?? Usually gets 'crickets' :chin: or when is the ball out? Reply: If unsure, ask and I'll let you know.

That's it. Too much for some :wow: but it takes me less than a minute... and I have found it helps me set up some basic form of management.

That sounds like a pretty standard brief to me to FR, 10, but word with scrummies is missing (re static FR, straight feed and don't touch flankers / #8) - often items 4 & 5 are with skippers only.

Get on top of them in first 10 mins, keep them legal at tackle and rucks, and match will open up thereafter.

 

[FlipFlop]

You are aware that the uk (and most of Europe) don't use the mayday calls at any levels. By introducing it at a briefing be sure you aren't just going to make a bad situation worse. Ie one side call it and stop, others forget and keep going.

 

[Adam]

You are aware that the uk (and most of Europe) don't use the mayday calls at any levels. By introducing it at a briefing be sure you aren't just going to make a bad situation worse. Ie one side call it and stop, others forget and keep going.

Good advice here. You need to exclude the mayday call from your pre-match talk in the UK. You have a whistle and should use it if something's wrong.

We prefer not to coach our forwards to capitulate in the scrum from such an early age!

 

[Adam]

4. Tackler roll or get to feet, tackled player exercises option immediately ONCE tackler clears - in other words I am not going to penalise tackled player for holding on until AFTER your tackler has cleared - player(s) on feet do not have rights to ball until tackler has cleared

I don't know why you need to say this for three reasons:

1. You're tying yourself in to that.
2. Players may think you're trying to belittle them by telling them about an area they should all be familiar
3. The pre-match briefing should only include safety things (Front Row) and technical issues such as where you want the 9 to stand at scrum and 10 is responsible for back line being onside.

Furthermore, you're not there to coach them how to play the game. If you're going to tell them about how the tackle should pan out then why not talk to them about rucks, and when a maul is formed?

 

[Paully]

excuse the ignorance but what's a mayday call?

Is it as obvious as it sounds??

 

[Mickman]

You are aware that the uk (and most of Europe) don't use the mayday calls at any levels. By introducing it at a briefing be sure you aren't just going to make a bad situation worse. Ie one side call it and stop, others forget and keep going.

Yep, done and done after talking with a few coaches and referees in my UK club, I dropped that part after the first game I did.

AJ, as for tying myself into that, I have no problem with this, as it's a BIG change in the law interpretation this season and how the tackle is supposed to be managed... and as I am finding now halfway through the season there isn't a whole lot of understanding about this... so I offer a chance to alert teams/ coaches prior to the game and offer question time/ a chance for clarification.

 

[dave_clark]

excuse the ignorance but what's a mayday call?

Is it as obvious as it sounds??

aiui, it's a 452 stage process to be used when a front row player gets into trouble (i.e. at risk of a serious injury). the player calls "mayday", the referee blows the whistle and coordinates the scrum coming apart.

 

[Mickman]

excuse the ignorance but what's a mayday call?

Is it as obvious as it sounds??

Call in the scrum to prevent serious injury (neck/ back) on the odd occasion when things go bad. ARU coaching course director suggested to be taught at least once a month at all clubs (and levels) in Australia, as a drill to be second nature.

Process:
Player under stress (usually front row player) calls mayday, everyone else in scrum calls mayday, immediately stop pushing.
Referee blows whislte.
Players follow scrum safety procedure - Players stay bound and drop to knees. Foreheads on the turf keeping neck straight.
Referee asks who called mayday.
Player responds on their situation. Response Fine. Break apart slowly starting with 8,6,7 then 4,5, then 1,2,3.
NOT FINE/ NO REPSONSE.
Referee directs players to stay bound. THEN number off. Player(s) non-resposive is assumed to be in trouble.
Players NOT in direct contact with player under stress can slowly detach and move away. (6,7,8 maybe 4,5)
Players bound directly to player stay bound until situation is assessed.
First Aid should be at ground to assist.
Ambulance doctor etc called immediately!!!!

 

[The Fat]

I am a little shocked that the mayday call is ignored in England and especially in juniors. I have personally seen it utilised in a couple of junior games and once in a senior match where the injured player was taken to hospital for tests. Had the mayday call not been used and the scrum allowed to continue, we can only speculate as to how much more serious the affected player's injury may have been.

 

[SimonSmith]

A couple of thoughts:

1. It isn't a case that it's ignored, simply that it isn't a protocol that has been implemented. Nor has it in Scotland, Wales, USA or anywhere else I've had any kind of rugby exposure

2. As a general rule of thumb, at the brief, I don't say any "I..." statements, but instead ask for what I expect to see, or what expectations will be; "tackler will.....you will...." statements. I can deliver the same message on what will happen without putting myself in any boxes.

 

[Davet]

I don't see any recent changes in the way the Law at the tackle works. Merely that existing and long standing practive has been confirmed.