[In-goal] 22 drop?

[RobLev]

I can smell a million post thread coming up

So player knocks the ball on the full over the DBL and it lands in a bucket. No knock on because it didn't hit the ground or another player??? So ref has to wait to see who takes the ball out of the bucket to determine if knock on?

Hey, what if player knocks the ball forward, it hits the post and bounces back into his hands. Knock-on?

I love this shit!

Not wanting to pile on (yeah, right), but:

Red break down the wing - Red 13 passes to Red 14, who fumbles the catch and the ball goes forward off his hands and lands outside the FoP. Line out Blue or scrum Blue?

Does it make a difference if the ball takes an odd bounce and bounces back into the FoP, where it again touches the ground?

 

[Staffs_Ref]

Not wanting to pile on (yeah, right), but:

Red break down the wing - Red 13 passes to Red 14, who fumbles the catch and the ball goes forward off his hands and lands outside the FoP. Line out Blue or scrum Blue?

Does it make a difference if the ball takes an odd bounce and bounces back into the FoP, where it again touches the ground?

Outcome would be option to Blue of taking the line out or the scrum. The additional information you give at the end makes not a jot of difference.

12.1 (e):
Knock-on or throw forward into touch. When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on or throw forward, the non-offending team will be offered the choice of a lineout at the point the ball crossed the touch line, or a scrum at the place of the knock-on or throw forward. The non-offending team may exercise this option by taking a quick throw-in.

 

[RobLev]

Outcome would be option to Blue of taking the line out or the scrum. The additional information you give at the end makes not a jot of difference.

12.1 (e):
Knock-on or throw forward into touch. When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on or throw forward, the non-offending team will be offered the choice of a lineout at the point the ball crossed the touch line, or a scrum at the place of the knock-on or throw forward. The non-offending team may exercise this option by taking a quick throw-in.

I entirely agree; the question was addressed to L'irlandais.

Albeit my first question should have been "lineout Blue or options Blue".

 

[Pegleg]

I entirely agree; the question was addressed to L'irlandais.

Albeit my first question should have been "lineout Blue or options Blue".

To be pedantic it is scrum or line out. The Knock one is the "first" event theball going into touch is the "second". Until the following re-write scrum was the call not they have the option of scrum or line out.

12.1 THE OUTCOME OF A KNOCK-ON OR THROW FORWARD


(e) Knock-on or throw forward into touch. When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on
or throw forward, the non-offending team will have the option of a lineout at the point the
ball crossed the touch line or a scrum at the place of the knock-on or throw forward, or a
quick throw in.

 

[RobLev]

To be pedantic it is scrum or line out. The Knock one is the "first" event theball going into touch is the "second".

I'm not sure that's the case on L'irlandais's interpretation - because on that interpretation, it seems the ball has to hit the ground inside the FoP to be a knock-on.

...

 

[Pegleg]

But that's just nonsense. So it can be safely binned. Unless he can back it up in law. The law, as I see it, is you knock on and it's a scrum the ball does not need to touch thr ground at all, it could hit another player for example). If the knock on goes int otouch ypu have the option of a line out (or QTI) instead of the core call (a scrum).

 

[Dickie E]

But that's just nonsense. So it can be safely binned. Unless he can back it up in law. The law, as I see it, is you knock on and it's a scrum the ball does not need to touch thr ground at all, it could hit another player for example). If the knock on goes int otouch ypu have the option of a line out (or QTI) instead of the core call (a scrum).

What about if you knock the ball forward into touch but regather the ball before it hits the ground? For me, that is a lineout (ie no scrum option). If that is true, what happens to the ball after it crosses plane of touch is relevant.

 

[Pegleg]

What about if you knock the ball forward into touch but regather the ball before it hits the ground? For me, that is a lineout (ie no scrum option). If that is true, what happens to the ball after it crosses plane of touch is relevant.

In such a case it's not a knock on. It's simply touch Unless of course you are in the field of play and it's play on.

 

[The Fat]

What about if you knock the ball forward into touch but regather the ball before it hits the ground? For me, that is a lineout (ie no scrum option). If that is true, what happens to the ball after it crosses plane of touch is relevant.

Just clarify for me please Dickie. Where are your feet when you regathered the ball when it has crossed the plane of touch but before it touches the ground?

I think you and Pegleg need to reconsider your decision???

 

[Dickie E]

Just clarify for me please Dickie. Where are your feet when you regathered the ball when it has crossed the plane of touch but before it touches the ground?

Your feet are well and truly in touch

 

[Dickie E]

In such a case it's not a knock on. It's simply touch Unless of course you are in the field of play and it's play on.

Yes, agreed. Same logic if ball is knocked over the DBL. If ball hits ground = knock on. If player re-gathers ball over DBL but before hits ground = 22 drop out.

I think L'irlandais is making the case (incorrectly IMO) that the ground beyond the DBL doesn't count as it is outside FoP. So if ball crosses the DBL and it hasn't touched another player or the ground beforehand (ie on the full and directly) then the conditions for a knock on haven't been met.

 

[The Fat]

Your feet are well and truly in touch

In that case, when you regathered the ball, it is in touch and has been put there by your team (namely you) by way of a knock forward directly into touch.
Scrum or Lineout option to the opposition still applies

 

[Dickie E]

Scrum or Lineout option to the opposition still applies

How can it be a scrum? Ball hasn't touched ground or another player.

 

[The Fat]

How can it be a scrum? Ball hasn't touched ground or another player.

Trust me

 

[Dickie E]

Trust me

Last time I fell for that took me 2 weeks to get the taste out of my mouth.

 

[OB..]

In that case, when you regathered the ball, it is in touch and has been put there by your team (namely you) by way of a knock forward directly into touch.
Scrum or Lineout option to the opposition still applies

A knock forward is not necessarily a knock-on.

 

[L'irlandais]

Charging White player, while in the try zone, contacts the ball with his hands and ball goes touch-in-goal.

In the same way, a charging player, contacting the ball with his hand, isn't necessarily an attempt to charge-down the kick?
[laws]12.1e) Knock-on or throw forward into touch. When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on or throw forward, the non-offending team will have the option of a lineout at the point the ball crossed the touch line or a scrum at the place of the knock-on or throw forward, or a quick throw in.[/laws]in the op scenario why is a quick-throw not on?

 

[Pegleg]

In the same way, a charging player, contacting the ball with his hand, isn't necessarily an attempt to charge-down the kick?
[laws]12.1e) Knock-on or throw forward into touch. When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on or throw forward, the non-offending team will have the option of a lineout at the point the ball crossed the touch line or a scrum at the place of the knock-on or throw forward, or a quick throw in.[/laws]in the op scenario why is a quick-throw not on?

A QTI IS an option I quoted the law earlier and do so again:

12.1 THE OUTCOME OF A KNOCK-ON OR THROW FORWARD


(e) Knock-on or throw forward into touch. When the ball goes into touch from a knock-on
or throw forward, the non-offending team will have the option of a lineout at the point the
ball crossed the touch line or a scrum at the place of the knock-on or throw forward, or a
quick throw in.

However we come back to your claim:

"... going direct into touch in-goal would not have been a knock on". Once again I am asking, as have others, for you to explain / support that claim.

 

[L'irlandais]

Ask away. Is planet rugby not open at the moment, or something?

 

[Pegleg]

Ask away. Is planet rugby not open at the moment, or something?

Why do you have a problem answering our reasonable question?