5m scrum or 22

[Toby Warren]

Red kick ball it stops 2m short of Blue's goal line.

Blue 15 with both feet in goal picks up the ball and grounds it.

Who took it in goal in red or blue?

 

[TheBFG]

5m scrum, ball not moving, therefore blue took it in (IMHO - and what i'd give if i saw it)

 

[Kempy]

I agree.

I believe the key is that the ball had stopped, if it was still moving then it would be a drop out as red would be deemed to have put it in goal.

 

[Account Deleted]

An easy one for a change!

Stationary ball so Blue took it back.

Law


22.9 DEFENDING PLAYER IN IN-GOAL
(a) A defending player who has part of one foot in in-goal is considered to have both feet in ingoal.
(b) If a player with one or both feet on or behind the goal line, picks up the ball, which was
stationary within the field of play, that player has picked up the ball in the field of play and
thereby that player has taken the ball into in-goal.


Same applies to the 22 and touch.

 

[Kempy]

Mind you, the blue player would have to have herculean strength/balance to keep both feet in goal and reach 2 metres out to pick it up! :wow:

 

[Toby Warren]

Thanks for the sanity check.

Had an interesting discussion at the weekend over this!

 

[TheBFG]

Just hope you were "discussing" the correct version of events :wink:

 

[Taff]

Mind you, the blue player would have to have herculean strength/balance to keep both feet in goal and reach 2 metres out to pick it up! :wow:

I know the OP says both feet were in-goal, but just a single toe on the goal line would suffice.

Agree with the rest. 5m scrum - as the ball had stopped.

If it was still moving - 22m DO. This one wasn't moving.

 

[Kempy]

Taff, stand up from your desk now and put something 2 metres away from you on the floor. Now try and pick it up without falling over!! :buttkick:

 

[Phil E]

Had a couple of similar incidents last Saturday.

First one. Attackers kick ball into in-goal, defender runs back puts a foot over the dead ball line and picks up the still rolling ball, from in in-goal.
Clever cookie thinks I. Scrum back.

Second one. Attackers kick ball into in-goal. Defender casually stand over the ball till it stops. Then as attackers close in, he picks it up. Attacker tries to grab the ball off him, defenders shout "he picked it up!".
"Play on" shouts I, at which point the defender is bundled over the dead ball line (22 DO). Had to explain that picking it up isn't grounding it (sigh).

 

[Taff]

Taff, stand up from your desk now and put something 2 metres away from you on the floor. Now try and pick it up without falling over!! :buttkick:

It can't be done. So either the OPer had his measurements wrong or he was mistaken that both feet were in-goal or a comnbination of the two.

My guess is that the ball wasn't quite 2m out and the defender may not have had both feet in goal. To an extent though it academic.

The important things for us are:

• The ball had come to a complete stop and
• The defender had at least 1 foot in-goal to be counted as in-goal. One toe on or over the goal line is just as good as both feet in-goal.

 

[crossref]

seeing as the ball was stationary, it doesn't matter where the defender's feet were when he picked it up - either way it was the defender who carried the ball back over the line, and it's a 5m scrum.

only if the ball had been still moving would the position of his feet be important (critical in fact)

 

[Phil E]

seeing as the ball was stationary, it doesn't matter where the defender's feet were when he picked it up - either way it was the defender who carried the ball back over the line, and it's a 5m scrum.

Really??

So if his feet were both in the field of play...............

 

[crossref]

Really??

So if his feet were both in the field of play...............

then clearly it would blue who then carried it over the goal line to ground it for a 5m scrum. It wouldn't even count as a dilemma.

 

[Phil E]

then clearly it would blue who then carried it over the goal line to ground it for a 5m scrum. It wouldn't even count as a dilemma.

But clearly then, it does matter where the defenders feet are, because if he is standing with both feet in the field of play he hasn't taken it into in-goal?

 

[crossref]

But clearly then, it does matter where the defenders feet are, because if he is standing with both feet in the field of play he hasn't taken it into in-goal?

the scenario in the OP is that he grounded it in goal -- and the question (in the title) is 5m scrum or 22 ?

If he doesn't ground it in goal, it's neither, one regardless of where his feet were.
If he does ground it in goal, it's 5m scrum regardless of where his feet were/are.


(because the ball is stationary. If it was moving it's different)

 

[Stuartg]

These are Welsh metres and so about 15 inches each. Which means that when a Welsh side say they have a 2m tall second row you've no worries.

 

[Jarrod Burton]

I've got another question to add to that - the laws say if the ball is still moving from a attacking kick and the ball is picked up from the FoP by a defender in goal and grounded in goal by that player, its a 22 as the ball has been played into the in goal area by the attacker. If the ball was doing that wonderful end-over-end bobble sort of bounce and the same defender played it (with their foot) in the FoP (as in the OP) but the ball hadn't stopped when he picked it up and grounded it in goal, what would you call? For me its feels like it should be a Scrum 5 as the defender played the ball outside the in goal, but the laws would say that as he was in the in-goal when he played it, then its a 22DO.

 

[menace]

[LAWS]If a player with one or both feet on or behind the goal line picks up the ball, which was in motion within the field of play, that player has picked up the ball within in-goal.[/LAWS]

For me, as he did not pick up the ball, this law does not apply. If he effectively uses any other method to bring the moving ball into in-goal then he's played at it and is responsible for putting the ball in-goal ie if he has one foot in-goal and rucks the moving ball back into in-goal then he's effectively kicked it into in-goal.

 

[Account Deleted]

It can't be done. So either the OPer had his measurements wrong or he was mistaken that both feet were in-goal or a comnbination of the two.

My guess is that the ball wasn't quite 2m out and the defender may not have had both feet in goal. To an extent though it academic.

The important things for us are:

• The ball had come to a complete stop and
• The defender had at least 1 foot in-goal to be counted as in-goal. One toe on or over the goal line is just as good as both feet in-goal.

Indeed I think the point of the question is the issue of the stationary ball and not the exact distance from the line.