7's or 10's 2-man line out

[Phil E]

The receiver can't join the lineout before the ball is thrown, unless someone drops out to replace him.

If they do that, they must complete the switch before the ball is thrown.

Simples.

 

[Jenko]

The receiver can't join the lineout before the ball is thrown, unless someone drops out to replace him.

If they do that, they must complete the switch before the ball is thrown.

Simples.

Where does it say that?

 

[SimonSmith]

The receiver can't join the lineout before the ball is thrown, unless someone drops out to replace him.

If they do that, they must complete the switch before the ball is thrown.

Simples.

USARugby would disagree with that.

 

[Scienide]

The receiver can't join the lineout before the ball is thrown, unless someone drops out to replace him.

If they do that, they must complete the switch before the ball is thrown.

Simples.

That's the interpretation I was told to use.

 

[Phil E]

Where does it say that?

In my post #21 :wink:

USARugby would disagree with that.

Must be right then

 

[FlipFlop]

http://www.sareferees.co.za/news/ref_news/2709241.htm

At line-out time, is there a moment when you would not allow the receiver to run into the line-out and act as a participating player?

I have been refereeing in England as a visitor for the past few months and this issue seems to arise in discussions. I haven't heard much talk about it in South Africa or in Canada.

Craig Joubert: Hi Chris,

This law was clarified this year, the receiver may enter the line-out once the ball has left the hooker's hands. Prior to the ball leaving the hooker's hands the receiver and another line-out participant can swap places.

Cheers, Craig

So - someone asked. They are quite clear on this. Receiver stays out, or they swap.

It is also in a law ruling:

Ruling in Law by the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee
Ruling 9-2009
Union IRFU
Law Reference 19
Date 11 November '09

Request
The IRFU request a Ruling related to the lineout.
Do the provisions of Law 19.8 (i) apply to Law 19.11 Exception 2?

Ruling of the Designated Members of the Rugby Committee

The provisions of Law 19.8(i) do apply to Exception 2 in Law 19.11 which means that a receiver cannot run into a gap in the lineout until the ball has left the hands of the player throwing in.

Is that clear enough for people?

 

[OB..]

"... until the lineout begins"

If the exception refers to that phrase, then the phrase is pointless.

Since the Exception was originally part of a paragraph referring to players not in the lineout, and the IRB document commenting on the 2010 law changes said the intention was merely to clarify the law (hollow laughter), I think it is clear we should regard the exception as allowing the receiver to join after the ball leaves the thrower's hands, but not before.

 

[Deeps]

Does it? What does "perform any of the actions available to any other player in the lineout" mean? Your interpretation says he can catch the ball but not lift or be lifted ... unless he enters towards the back after the ball leaves the thrower's hands. I cannot see any basis for this interpretation ... yet, ... maybe Dixie/others can provide.

My interpretation means nothing of the sort, read it again, the whole thing! Should the receiver choose to enter the line out legally before or after the ball is thrown then he is no longer the receiver but just another member of the line out and can do all the other things done by players in the line out. The point about entering towards the back of the line is that he will not have sufficient time to enter the line anywhere else after the ball has been thrown should he be part of a lifter/lifted combination; nobody is that quick.

The explanation provided by Dixie in #4 concerns the formation of the lineout, so that the ref can identify the receiver and the player in opposition to the thrower.
The exception to (i) tells us what the (now clearly identified) receiver may do after formation and before the lineout begins.

Agreed.

If the intention was to limit the receiver's option to catching ...

I don't know where you got that idea from. Visualize the receiver standing 2 metres from the line abreast of #1 and #2 in the line out. Do you think that, taking his cue from when the ball leaves the thrower's hands, he can get in, jump and be supported in time to catch the ball? His only possibility, should he wish to do that, is at the tail end.

This doesn't need to be complicated.

 

[OB..]

Is that clear enough for people?

I didn't quote that because it refers to the law before the 2010 change moved the exception from (old) 19.11 to 19.8(i). This has caused the confusion. However I have argued in effect that its meaning should still stand.

 

[Jenko]

My interpretation means nothing of the sort, read it again, the whole thing! Should the receiver choose to enter the line out legally before or after the ball is thrown then he is no longer the receiver but just another member of the line out and can do all the other things done by players in the line out. The point about entering towards the back of the line is that he will not have sufficient time to enter the line anywhere else after the ball has been thrown should he be part of a lifter/lifted combination; nobody is that quick.

Agreed.

I don't know where you got that idea from. Visualize the receiver standing 2 metres from the line abreast of #1 and #2 in the line out. Do you think that, taking his cue from when the ball leaves the thrower's hands, he can get in, jump and be supported in time to catch the ball? His only possibility, should he wish to do that, is at the tail end.

This doesn't need to be complicated.

He can however enter the line between #1 and # 2 and the thrower take the cue from him entering the line, can he not?

 

[scrumpox2]

Hallelujah! I think I've got it now ...

The problem for me was the word "gap" which isn't contained in the line out definitions, other than the "1m gap" between line of touch and players in the line out.

"Gap" means the 2m distance between the receiver and his players in the line out, and not as I had thought a gap between any of his players standing 5m-15m from the touch line in the line out ... indeed what the law clarification in FlipFlop's post unhelpfully refers to as "a gap in the line out." (The gap is a 2 x 10 meter rectangular box.)

So the exception has just about nothing to do with receivers becoming line out jumpers or lifters, it's about the acting half back moving forward from 2m back in order to get his hands on the ball.

Sorry if I appeared to be thick. Anyone else think this law ought to be rewritten? LOL!!!