Accidental offside? Italy v France

[Ciaran Trainor]

At least twice in the game yesterday the ball came off a player into a team mate and the ref gives a penalty for offside.
The Italian player had no way of avoiding the ball.
To me clearly accidental offside yet the ref gives a potential game winning penalty decision.
Anyone else see this and thought it was wrong?

 

[Taff]

I saw one and I remember thinking "That looked harsh".

I remember Dellaglio commentating on a game about 2 yrs ago and the gist of his comment was "If the offside player didn't have time to react, [he] would always consider it accidental offside". It makes sense to me.

 

[didds]

At least twice in the game yesterday the ball came off a player into a team mate and the ref gives a penalty for offside.
The Italian player had no way of avoiding the ball.
To me clearly accidental offside yet the ref gives a potential game winning penalty decision.
Anyone else see this and thought it was wrong?

Not seen it, but what springs to mind in these situations is OB's concept that "not much happens at these levels that is accidental" or somesuch. The actual incident may have been accidental - but the player might have been there deliberately "just in case". I reiterate though I haven't seen the footage for this specific incident(s).

didds

 

[Taff]

Why would a player deliberately put himself in a position to concede a scrum at best and a PK at worst?

Ie what possible advantage are they gaining?

 

[didds]

you'd have to ask the players that did it. Though I'd offer as an possibility that its running interference so the team mate takes the ball cleanly and the defense cannot get to him immediately or get to challenge for the ball initially. Then the team mate knocks on and the ball hits him totally accidentally. so the knock-on and hitting him is accidental - but his presence there wasn't and was ultimately material ie prevented the oppo form getting the ball.

I haven't seen the footage so this may of course not be the case here. i'm only illustratring an possibility for why it may end up a PK and not a scrum.


didds

 

[SimonSmith]

I saw them, and my immediate reaction was "that was instinctive."

And at first blush, it probably does seem harsh. But then the hyper dynamic, smooth passing, silky handling, gap finding French team might have said "but had he left it alone, we would have had the ball and been under the sticks..." or somesuch. The penalty is sometimes less about what the offending player and more about the impact it had on the non offending team

 

[OB..]

I saw them, and my immediate reaction was "that was instinctive."

... but not necessarily exculpatory. Some instincts have to be resisted.

 

[FlipFlop]

I know the one you mean. The problem is the Italian caught the ball, then threw it to the floor/dropped it. If it had just hit him, I am sure it would have been a scrum, but he actively played the ball. That made all the difference to me.

 

[Browner]

well at least the referee was consistent.

Dallaglio as a referee , yep id like to have seen that , but then ..... why would he take a huge pay cut from the easy punditry chair !!

 

[SimonSmith]

... but not necessarily exculpatory. Some instincts have to be resisted.

Agreed. Hence my 'French' statement