So Wales should have kicked it over the DBL, and then they would have got the 22 ?
[In-goal] Advantage from knock on into in goal
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So Wales should have kicked it over the DBL, and then they would have got the 22 ?
ChrisR
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This is the part that irks me. Blue is the offending side, not Red. The onus should be on Blue to prevent Red from gaining the advantage, not the reverse, and this they can do by being first to ground the ball.
When Red ground the ball it is a live ball and the restart from a defender making the ball dead that has been played into his goal by an attacker is a 22 drop out.
2018 Law 12
[LAWS]RESTART KICKS FOLLOWING A TOUCH-DOWN (22-METRE DROP-OUT)
11. Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an
attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre
drop-out.
[/LAWS]
Now, if you can find any law that contradicts this law in the current (2018) laws then we have a debate. Otherwise, Jaco got it wrong as per current law.
Christy
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hi cross ,,lets take it back to what the ref said in his explanation .
1} you cant play an advantage when ball is dead { there fore you cant start with a 22 ,,it has to be a scrum where ball knock on happened }
2} red said what about advantage ,, & the ref said for advantage to be over , it has to be gained 1st .
im sumarising what he said .
1stly ... red 15 touched the ball down , whilst under pressure also from opposition looking to score a try . {{ no advantage gained here so far , so it cant be advantage over }
{ remember we all new it was a knock on from the tv angle ,,,if this was club rugby & the ref didnt see the knock on ,,its still open play }.. red 15 also new he couldnt stop playing , just because he had seen a knock on ,,so he is still under pressure .
for me whether he touched down under pressure {{ which is what happened }} , kicked the ball dead under pressure , kicked ball back into play under pressure { where blue could catch kicked ball & still run in a try }.
red is still playing under pressure .
so he still would not get a 22 for kicking over dead ball line .
it is still back for a scrum .
had they under no pressure passed ball amongst them selves in side in goal ,, clearly not under any pressure & then kick it dead not under any pressure .
i believe they maybe should get a 22 for this ..
The answer is simple. The ball wasn't "played or taken" into red's in-goal by the blue player. The ball was knocked-on. The result is a scrum. Jaco was 100% correct. I have visited this site about 4 or 5 times this year and am amazed/dismayed that people still don't get it. I'm sure that if I check in in a couple of months time, you guys will still be debating this issue.
Christy
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Well not sure you are paying attention as before this year we NEVER debated the knock on INTO the ingoal , as there were two separate Laws that dealt with it.
What we debated endlessly was the knock on INSIDE the in goal.
In the 2018 Law Book, amusingly, they deleted the two special Laws dealing with INTO
Actually both knock ons INTO and IN the In-goal were covered in the 2017 law book, although not as clearly as they might have been.
And it specifically said "the ball being made dead by the defender".
So it included the kicking the ball into touch or back over the DBL.
And it specifically said "the ball being made dead by the defender".
So it included the kicking the ball into touch or back over the DBL.
ChrisR
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. . . . and there is no longer any reference to "knock-on in or into goal" in the 2018 laws.
It keeps coming up because there are members of the rugby community that post on this site that firmly believe that the law is being applied incorrectly.
I'm not going to apologize for not seeing it the way that you want me to.
It keeps coming up because there are members of the rugby community that post on this site that firmly believe that the law is being applied incorrectly.
I'm not going to apologize for not seeing it the way that you want me to.
On a note of pragmatic realism
Out on the pitch, for a knock on INTO the in goal today I would apply the 2017 Law and give the scrum . I think that would be the safe decision that almost everyone would expect .. and importantly it's in line with the RFU email someone quoted here in another thread
I do hope they fix the Law book before too long
Out on the pitch, for a knock on INTO the in goal today I would apply the 2017 Law and give the scrum . I think that would be the safe decision that almost everyone would expect .. and importantly it's in line with the RFU email someone quoted here in another thread
I do hope they fix the Law book before too long
ChrisR
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How is "knocked on" not "played"? Played encompasses any means of propelling the ball.
Played is defined as intentionally touching the ball.
The sanction for a knock-on is a scrum and yes it is clearly stated in the 2018 Laws of The Game. The only time it is not a scrum is if the Advantage Law is being applied. You guys are continuing to argue that you want your advantage, i.e. a 22 restart, AFTER the ball has been made dead. It is obvious that banging my head against the proverbial brick wall is not going to change the minds of those in your camp. I have spent enough years promoting consistency as an education officer and have been through all of this before. The rogue referee only makes life more difficult for his fellow referees and causes confusion for an already confused bunch of players.
The sanction for a knock-on is a scrum and yes it is clearly stated in the 2018 Laws of The Game. The only time it is not a scrum is if the Advantage Law is being applied. You guys are continuing to argue that you want your advantage, i.e. a 22 restart, AFTER the ball has been made dead. It is obvious that banging my head against the proverbial brick wall is not going to change the minds of those in your camp. I have spent enough years promoting consistency as an education officer and have been through all of this before. The rogue referee only makes life more difficult for his fellow referees and causes confusion for an already confused bunch of players.
Fat you started off by saying
But as you have acknowledged, since the 2018 rewrite it all now revolves around the application of advantage law .... which is not quite so clear and simple , as we do allow people to gain advantage by kicking the ball dead, and by making a touchdown
The 2018 Law have thrown some grit into the works
Your consistency argument is very powerful .. give a scrum because everyone else does. I completely agree that is a compelling reason to give a scrum
But as you have acknowledged, since the 2018 rewrite it all now revolves around the application of advantage law .... which is not quite so clear and simple , as we do allow people to gain advantage by kicking the ball dead, and by making a touchdown
The 2018 Law have thrown some grit into the works
Your consistency argument is very powerful .. give a scrum because everyone else does. I completely agree that is a compelling reason to give a scrum
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Marc Wakeham
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Not if you referee in context and the context is "there are no law changes". Now if you acknowledge it is just a poorly attempted clarification it is easy to understand.
Of course if you want to go down the "conspiricy" route "they said there were no changrs and then sneaked a few in" route you complicate matter totally.
You seem to confuse what the advantage law is all about. Advantage is played to allow continuity of play. Kicking the ball dead or making a touch-down does not bring the Advantage Law into play. Those actions result in a pre-determined restart that is seen as beneficial to the team that makes them.
Yes, and that's exactly the same as touching it down in the in goal to get the predetermined beneficial restart of the 22m.
(For the scenario when red carry the ball into the blue in goal, and then lose possession, and blue touch it down)
You have misread my previous post. I didn't acknowledge that, "since the 2018 rewrite it all now revolves around the application of advantage law", I simply stated that the only time a knock-on is not sanctioned by way of a scrum is if advantage is being played by the referee (and yes I can hear many of you reminding me of the line-out option if a KO goes into touch). This yearning for a 22 restart has nothing to do with the 2018 rewrite. Nothing has changed with respect to a knock-on. The sanction is still a scrum.
Sigh....