american section

[ddjamo]

since the membership here does not really respond to north american posts/advice/conversation I have a suggestion. I think it may be best if we had an american section so we can politely answer one another and pose questions without all the bs and MAYBE save a few members. as of now most of my friends from here are fed up with the forum and it's attitude (including myself). since us americans are so "out of the loop" to you english guys - how about you just give us a corner and let us go play by ourselves where we could actually do something constructive?

I am the pres of my society and I haven't recommended this site to a new ref in years. maybe a bit of a change would help? I would like to be able to pose questions and scenarios without all the bias, human spell checking and off topic crap. like a private/invite only section so I could actually utilize this site like we did years ago?

 

[SimonSmith]

I'm not quite all the way to where Jamo is.

But my observation is:
There are some very good, very experienced referees here who would not be out of place in good level RFU games.

The fact that we work for the Most ****ed Up Rugby In The World (tm) doesn't mean that our opinions should be treated the same way. I think, on occasion, the two get conflated.

 

[Dickie E]

Be careful what you wish for.

Its like the nerds (or any minority group) at high school setting up their own little club to avoid being taunted by the mainstream kids. Guess what? They cop it even more.

The rugby league forum is regularly baited with vacuous, anti-league comments.

It would only work if the rest of us didn't have visibility to it. Is that the plan? Then we would all be wondering what the Yanks were talking about behind our backs.

DIYDADIYD



There are two kinds of people I can't stand in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures, and the Dutch.

 

[ddjamo]

it would be invite only and only members could see it. that way we can ask questions, learn and comment on the board without ridicule and all the nonsense that goes on. I know I gave cody shit back in my drinking days but 3 things have changed: 1 - I quit drinking, 2 - he's not coming back 3 - he's stopped with the dumb shit....so maybe it did work a little.

I feel that more americans would join and comment if they had a place to go without the crap from the english. we could talk about our div1 and the canadians can talk about the territorial prem league as the highest levels we have in north america without having noses turned up at us when we post about the play.

I was watching some baseball in OZ today and though it's nowhere near our MLB - probably close to the level I played - I was totally fired up and excited to see them love our game....to the point I thought to myself that I should take a month and go down there and train catchers some day....

the attitude we get from england is that we are no good, fat, poor level of play, don't know how to ref....to the point that our timely and well thought out posts are passed over for banter between two guys from the UK and even when we try to bring the thread back - it takes someone other than us to really make an impression.

since I'm a marketing man - here's my take from the board's side. I send my society invites to the private board and give them polls and quizes, etc that other american/canadian's can see - that drives traffic to the site and then they browse the rest of the site, become an active member, etc...

since I ref in canada and the states I could do the same with ontario...or at least let them know that we have something moving forward and not just the stagnant status the forum is currently in.

 

[Dickie E]

we just need to careful isn't end up like situation with Chopper when he became aware that there was a ref's only section that he was excluded from.

My 13 yo boy has just started catching. Let me know when you're free for some coaching

 

[DrSTU]

I'm with Jamo on this one. I do a whole load of coaching with my refs in SoCal via email so there's no reason that others couldn't benefit from it too.

 

[Phil E]

Well we have a French only forum, so the precedent is set?

Maybe you could quote some of the posts you have an issue with? Then we could see what the problem is, because apart from a little light hearted banter I have no idea what the problem is.

The issue will be that for every quote you post, I could probably do the same for Aystralian (drink Fosters, all look like crocodile Dundee), English (bad teeth, winging, etc), Scots (tight, skirt wearing, etc), etc, etc, etc.

If its going to be a locked down forum the rest of us aren't invited to, then it might as well be on another site!

 

[OB..]

Like Phil E I do not recognise the caricature that ddjamo has drawn. I accept that is how he feels, but I don't really understand it. How about a specific example?

I have no objection to an American forum, but I would not like to see it ring-fenced. Rugby is supposed to be the same across the world, so many of the problems will be common to others. One of the difficulties is that the USA authorities have promulgated interpretations that the rest of the world apparently does not share. It is not all-embracing, but do we really want to encourage that approach?

 

[SimonSmith]

Let me give you one example:

We have the GMG to work with.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that not all the GMG is good, or compliant with the rest of the world.

We know this. We don't need reminded of it whenever the differences come up
Given that we sometimes have squirrelly interpretation with which to work, it may make sense to give us a section in which to discuss it

Lastly - USA Rugby structurally is going through an upheaval that may be of limited of interest to others.

 

[OB..]

Let me give you one example:

We have the GMG to work with.
It is a truth universally acknowledged that not all the GMG is good, or compliant with the rest of the world.

We know this. We don't need reminded of it whenever the differences come up
Given that we sometimes have squirrelly interpretation with which to work, it may make sense to give us a section in which to discuss it

Lastly - USA Rugby structurally is going through an upheaval that may be of limited of interest to others.

Those reason make sense for having an American forum, but not for it being limited to America based referees. That would be divisive.

 

[ddjamo]

here's what gets me:

look at the total lack of respect to NKW when he posts. a guy like crossref can start a thread, "my whistle is losing it's shine" and get 9000 replies. NKW posts and the thread turns into banter. NKW had a good question and us americans would enjoy the discussion if it wasn't littered with posts about who's grammar is better...

I personally lay out decent posts as a test then barker and I watch the replies and laugh. mine will be very good info that I learned - say - in scotland - and nobody will even respond to it or even act like it exists...then 9 posts later someone says the same thing in a different way and since he's from england - everyone chimes in.

and for the record here is some ref grade facts for you english blokes: our highest league level is our level 4. our 4's play around an rfu 5 standard. as in any country the best teams playing each other will yield a better level, etc... with that being said it's NOT the same with ref grades...in fact I have found them to be the opposite. rfu 6's are lucky to be 6's here and most likely are 7's. IMO the reason is there is so much more rugby and better rugby over there that requires guys to be stretched to the next level a bit sooner. that being said - we have noses turned up at us all the time as inferior referees - but some of us ref the highest stuff we can ref over here so there's nowhere else to go. I have seen/worked with TO3 rfu 5's on exchange over here that would be middle of our pack at territorial level. I also had a yorkshire level 8 come over and was so bad that we couldn't appoint him matches other than the lowest women. he was overly dangerous and didn't even know how to whistle, signal, talk. this is not uncommon. I'm sure some american societies have grades out of whack - but I challenge anyone to watch my society refs and compare grades - if anything I'm too tough and the grades are too low.

bottom line - if I went over to coach baseball in OZ I would give any of the umps 100% support if they were into the game.....they cannot help it that the play is lower and less of it to gain even more experience. with the guys from england there is some sort of bone they want to pick from us. we love and live the game of rugby just like those guys in OZ love baseball...I can't imagine an american ump every talking down to another countries ump if they are into it and work hard.

lastly - the GMG are not that "out there." example: the swapping issue is not wrong in law - just a different interpretation than what is published by the rfu...there is no material impact on the game either way - except the english version would yield a more pedantic approach that's not needed. most of the other stuff as american refs we read it and do what the rest of the world does anyway -example: bird shit on it definition.

I am respectfully asking for this section robbie or if you want some $ to start a new site for north america we can talk about you doing the dirty work and I'll put up the cash. if you want to keep the site crawling along with the same "sore armed pitchers" that's fine.

thank you

 

[ddjamo]

and one last thing....as a baseball coach/catcher - I would prefer an ump from OZ that lived and breathed baseball over some of the part time jokers here in the states that are only doing it for spare change on the weekends...and if he has a consistent strike zone he can be vulcan for all I care.

 

[Davet]

the attitude we get from england is that we are no good, fat, poor level of play, don't know how to ref....to the point that our timely and well thought out posts are passed over for banter between two guys from the UK and even when we try to bring the thread back - it takes someone other than us to really make an impression.

Really?

As far as can see you treated exactly the same as any other set of posters on here.

NKW posts and the thread turns into banter. NKW had a good question and us americans would enjoy the discussion if it wasn't littered with posts about who's grammar is better...

the last question NKW posed generated a discussion about the pros and cons of crossing and what would be legal and he had several straight answers. When he refined what he was after, which was coaching advice the general response was that#s not our skill set, but he would be ill advised to simply go for the knock 'em over and try to hurt 'em solution he suggested.

In what way was he ignored or belittled?

In what way have US refs been ignored or belittled? There has been robust discussion, but if you read all the threads then you will find it applies to everybody.

I don't recognise your premise.

 

[ddjamo]

davet as one of the most biased I wouldn't expect you to recognize it and no matter how I reply it won't change your thought process....that's my point - why fight it? I have an idea that will help us get what we need without all the crap and it will drive quite a few americans to the site. lets say stu, simon and I moderate our private forum...now we get michigan, socal, virginia and indiana societies coming here to do quizzes, review film and discuss refereeing and rugby. the forum will pick up 30-60 active members immediately and we can encourage them to get involved.

maybe you are just afraid of being outnumbered davet?

 

[Robert Burns]

The forum's primary objective is to help referees develop. How we do that will always vary from country to country.

We did years ago have an American forum, a London forum, a Hampshire, etc, for areas that had a lot of referees so they could talk about anything that was specific to themselves, issue was, they were hardly ever used.

If you feel it would help, and if I'm honest, it can't hurt. Then I am willing to do it for you. After all it's a few clicks for me and if it helps 5, 10, 20 or 30 referees develop, it's worth doing.

I'll set it up for you today.

If the RFU refs would like the same, I have no issues with doing that too.

No point in doing so for Aussies & NZ yet as there really isn't enough members, unless people specifically want it, then once again, I have no issues. Perhaps a combined SANZAR one?

 

[Robert Burns]

All done.

I have added USA & Canada together.

Australia & NZ together

England

Africa.

Let me know if you have any issues, each should see the forum that applies to them, or none if none apply to you.

 

[Dickie E]

can you set up a Dickie E only forum? That way I can entertain myself in private epper: (stems back to the days my Mum would never knock on my bedroom door )

 

[Robert Burns]

lol. You could always PM yourself.

 

[Dickie E]

lol. You could always PM yourself.

I know what the M stands for, but does the P stand for Privately, Publicly or Prudently? (maybe even Punishingly?)

But good idea anyway. I'll try it tonight.

 

[ddjamo]

great! I am traveling tomorrow and tying up loose ends all day today....if you can make it private/invite only that would be great. I will get with stu, simon and the like and I'm sure we can put it to good use! much appreciated!