[Law] Another advantage question!

[TheBFG]

If non offending side are in possession and we're inside the defenders 10m (this will depend on the level of the game and maybe even the conditions) we'll play on until they make at least a clear line break as a minimum, but chances are unless they score a try they'll be getting a choice of a shot at goal at worst.

With regards to who calls it over, i'll expect it to come from the capt, but might also accept it from the SH, that said, the SH is not getting "yes sir we'll have it" and also the chance to take it quickly knowing the defenders are unable to tackle him :nono:

 

[crossref]

With regards to who calls it over, i'll expect it to come from the capt, but might also accept it from the SH, that said, the SH is not getting "yes sir we'll have it" and also the chance to take it quickly knowing the defenders are unable to tackle him :nono:

not sure why you wouldn't let him take it quickly. It's the other team that committed the PK offence who are being penalised, why must they now be given time to organise their defence?

If he's not allowed to go quickly when he tells you 'yes sir, we'll have it' then next time he'll contrive to accidentally fumble the ball, after which, presumably, you do let him go quickly.

 

[DocY]

not sure why you wouldn't let him take it quickly. It's the other team that committed the PK offence who are being penalised, why must they now be given time to organise their defence?

I can see BFG's point, though I don't think it should be a hard and fast rule.

Take this example: Ruck offence 5m out, ball is coming out nonetheless, "penalty advantage", "we'll have the PK, sir", [PEEEP], the 9 (already on the mark with the ball) taps and scores before the defenders have realised what's happening.

I wouldn't say you can't take a quick tap if you've asked for the PK, but when it can be taken immediately it can be overly advantageous. If he were to deliberately drop the ball, that would add an extra half second between the PK being awarded and taken.

 

[crossref]

Take this example: Ruck offence 5m out, ball is coming out nonetheless, "penalty advantage", "we'll have the PK, sir", [PEEEP], the 9 (already on the mark with the ball) taps and scores before the defenders have realised what's happening.
.

they get a PEEEEEP --- which is exactly the same warning as they get when you don't play advantage at all.

In fact more so -- as not only did they get the PEEEEP - they were actually pre-warned that the PEEEEP was coming, as they heard you announce penalty advantage, and they heard the oppo ask for the kick. They don't really have any reason to act surprised.

The key here is actually the PEEEEP which needs to be exactly the same as every PK peep.

 

[DocY]

The key here is actually the PEEEEP which needs to be exactly the same as every PK peep.

Agreed, though the difference I see is the SH (for it is usually he) getting ready for the quick tap before asking for the kick. At lower levels the defence just won't think to react, though I agree that that's their own fault. It's one of those things that, to me, looks wrong, so my reaction is to stop it.

TBH, the only time I've seen this happen successfully (though I brought him back and made him take it again, being very strict on the precise place) was when there was a huge mismatch and the defending team obviously didn't want to be there. I might have had a bit more heat had they not been 40 points clear, but as it was, nothing was said.

 

[crossref]

Agreed, though the difference I see is the SH (for it is usually he) getting ready for the quick tap before asking for the kick. At lower levels the defence just won't think to react, though I agree that that's their own fault. It's one of those things that, to me, looks wrong, so my reaction is to stop it.

I think a couple of things

- when they ask for the penalty, wait a beat before the PEEP, so that no one knows exactly when the whistle is coming. Both sides have to react to the whistle (not you reacting to them)

- I don't know exactly why, but somehow there's a temptation in these circumstances to deliver a quieter PEEP -- because they know it's coming I guess, whereas the 'normal' PK blast is an urgent instruction to stop. That temptation is to be avoided, as it plays into the SH's hands, helping the surprise - it must be the normal PK PEEEEP, that puts both sides on an equal footing.

But also : rugby is a game for brains as well as brawn, and a team that thinks clearly and cleverly, stays calm, listens to the referee, and reacts quickly to his decisions, will have a lot of opportunites to gain an advantage over 80 minutes. This is a key rugby skill (IMO) which we shouldn't be seeking to muzzle.

 

[ChrisR]

The one advantage that I can see in asking for the PK quickly is being close to the mark. If advantage is played and the ball is run cross field and then it has to come back to the mark giving the defenders time to reorganize.

The up side of playing out advantage is getting free chances to score.

 

[TheBFG]

You can of course control the whole situation in taking your time to "give the mark" :wink:

I'm not against them taking a quick one, but a smart SH, might well wait until play is moving away from the mark, defenders following play and then say, "yes sir we'll have it", he dashes back to where we've all just come from etc.

It's also a case of self preservation too! You have the situation above, the SH rushes back to the mark and then someone tackles him as they believe they're hard done by (again depending on the level) you have another situation to deal with! Let's not make ourselves centre of attention :wink: