Are the french more forgiving?

L'irlandais

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You genuinely don’t read things though.
For the immediate future, there's no thought that they will be considered. They are playing overseas at the moment. If you are playing overseas, you are not considered.
Nothing has changed for the moment, The IRFU made it clear they would not be selected, even if they remained in Ireland; which opened the door for them to play abroad. The Irish Union are just covering themselves. If the player’s union rep decides to take action against the IRFU, their position is neither player is selectionable since they play in France.
 

crossref


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Funnily enough I did read it through, but my interpretation is different ... I read it as a conciliatory message saying that if when they come back to Ireland they will be considered for selection

You say nothing has changed.. but the statement has made lots of news stories , so evidently a lot of journalists think it's something new
 

Marc Wakeham


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You genuinely don’t read things though.
For the immediate future, there's no thought that they will be considered. They are playing overseas at the moment. If you are playing overseas, you are not considered.
Nothing has changed for the moment, The IRFU made it clear they would not be selected, even if they remained in Ireland; which opened the door for them to play abroad. The Irish Union are just covering themselves. If the player’s union rep decides to take action against the IRFU, their position is neither player is selectionable since they play in France.

Indeed. There are not eligible so the debate is moot. However. Should the return in 1, 5, 10 or 50 year then a view woudl be taken dependent on feelings / opinions prevailing at that time. Nothing more nothing less. "Never say never" you could say.
 

Marc Wakeham


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I'm probably going to live to regret joining this conversation but maybe 'misconduct' or 'misbehaviour' may be the neutral & acceptable words.

Certainly 'shenanigans' conveys (to me) highjinks or tomfoolery. You'll get in trouble, but not serious trouble.


One Definition of "shenanigans":

Secret or dishonest activities.


That does not convey highjinks to me. Although other definitions do suggest that as an option. I guess it depends on context.
 

L'irlandais

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Indeed. There are not eligible so the debate is moot. However. Should the return in 1, 5, 10 or 50 year then a view woudl be taken dependent on feelings / opinions prevailing at that time. Nothing more nothing less. "Never say never" you could say.
If they came back tomorrow, as crossref suggests, the original outcry would be just as strong.
Their only hope is that Joe Schmidt leave after the 2019 RWC. But that in itself is far from a foregone conclusion, since he is contracted until end of 2020. The BBC article is only evidence of journalists milking a news story dry, and not of any change in the IRFU’s position. Less so of any warming of Ulster Rugby’s position.

There is little wrong with my choice of words and loads wrong with people who think those not convicted of crimes they have been accused of are deserving of any punishment online haters choose to dish out. Only the jury is in possession of all available facts, they drew their conclusions. For the rest of us, we have to live with that.
 
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VM75

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Only the jury is in possession of all available facts, they drew their conclusions.

Even then, It's still possible for a Jury of 12 to
a] take a dislike to a defendant or his arrogance
b] get offended by evidence mistruths
c] and come to a legally flawed decision
as the Ched Evans case clearly evidences that possibility.

Notwithstanding that, your insight into the cultural mindset of forgiveness of FFR & it's followers was the primary reason I posted. Thanks

IME it's easier to get forgiveness when you are needed/irreplaceable/gifted/valuable than when you aren't any of those things.

it's a subject which divides opinions for sure.
 

Marc Wakeham


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Even then, It's still possible for a Jury of 12 to
a] take a dislike to a defendant or his arrogance
b] get offended by evidence mistruths
c] and come to a legally flawed decision
as the Ched Evans case clearly evidences that possibility.

Of course it it. but that is the system we are "blesssed" with and it is arguable the best option.

I understand that the Ched Evans case was more about evidence not presented that changed the picture completely. Legally flawed decisions are normally avoided, not always, by judicial guidence.
 
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SimonSmith


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For the second time:

Not guilty doesn't mean you did nothing wrong, it means the prosecution didn't meet its burden. That's a VERY different thing.

And yes, I think we can sit in judgment based on the evidence available, both in the case and what was revealed afterwards. I agree I Can't sit in legal judgment but I can in moral. And they signally fail that.

I'd have been fired if that were me. And I would find it VERY difficult to find another job in my field. Why should they be any different?
 

Dickie E


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I'd have been fired if that were me. And I would find it VERY difficult to find another job in my field. Why should they be any different?

we have an employee who, I am led to believe, has a restraining order on him taken out by his wife. 2+2 would suggest domestic violence. Can I sack him?
 

crossref


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we have an employee who, I am led to believe, has a restraining order on him taken out by his wife. 2+2 would suggest domestic violence. Can I sack him?

Its complicated ..
is he in a public facing role, representing your company ? And did he make mocking tweets and Facebook posts about what he did ? Or boast about it in public ?
If so you may well be justified in sacking him

On the other hand you may believe in the importance of redemption and want to offer him a chance . Maybe you would move him to your french subsidiary where people don't know him and he can have a fresh start
 
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SimonSmith


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we have an employee who, I am led to believe, has a restraining order on him taken out by his wife. 2+2 would suggest domestic violence. Can I sack him?

I don't know Aussie law well enough to comment
 
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