Back Foot

[Gracie]

Watching the 6N games this weekend, does the back foot no longer count as offside at the ruck?

The failure by all referees to give the attacking see the space they deserve is so frustrating. This is especially true in the red zone. Defending sides are able to defend halfway up the breakdown without any apparent risk of censure. And don't even get me started about players flying over the breakdown off their feet or attacking the breakdown shoulder first with no use of the arms.

Next weekend I will be assessed and would expect such over sights to be picked up and I am unlikely to have the benefit of ARs. Have the laws changed or am I incorrect?

 

[Treadmore]

One stuck in mind from Sco v Wal today - around 38:40 playing time (it's on iPlayer). Warbuton at side of ruck in front of back foot and also supporting his weight with his hands on the floor a metre in front of his feet! He stops Gray from going over. Right in front of the referee.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

That's showbiz rugby for you, ruins it for the rest of us

 

[Blackberry]

One stuck in mind from Sco v Wal today - around 38:40 playing time (it's on iPlayer). Warbuton at side of ruck in front of back foot and also supporting his weight with his hands on the floor a metre in front of his feet! He stops Gray from going over. Right in front of the referee.

It was amazing, right in front of the ref, but nobody from Scotland said anything either (A scrum half worth his salt would , respectfully, point at the offenders).

 

[Shtasviking]

And in addition to those areas mentioned we appear to be seeing a return of scatter rucking - taking defenders out who are adjacent to the ruck but not part of the ruck.

 

[didds]

One stuck in mind from Sco v Wal today - around 38:40 playing time (it's on iPlayer). Warbuton at side of ruck in front of back foot and also supporting his weight with his hands on the floor a metre in front of his feet!.

This has been debated here before and the consensus of opinion was that "hands don't count".

So yes, You can in fact be ready to tackle a metre or so IN FRONT of the offside line. Good innit?

didds

 

[Browner]

This has been debated here before and the consensus of opinion was that "hands don't count".

So yes, You can in fact be ready to tackle a metre or so IN FRONT of the offside line. Good innit?

didds

I'd favour a " defenders shoulders to be behind the HMF line" interpretation.

given its them that are the first point of impact mostly.

 

[ddjamo]

This has been debated here before and the consensus of opinion was that "hands don't count".

So yes, You can in fact be ready to tackle a metre or so IN FRONT of the offside line. Good innit?

didds

I don't recall that conclusion.

 

[Taff]

This has been debated here before and the consensus of opinion was that "hands don't count".

I don't recall that conclusion.

I may be confused, but I thought there was a Ruling that said it was the feet that counted - not the hands. I'm pretty sure I've seen something written down.

What I have noticed is that a hell of a lot of players are failing to enter the tackle area through the "gate" and at rucks and mauls, a lot are joining in front of the hindmost player. This used to be a weak point for me, but hell even I am noticing them now.

 

[ddjamo]

The player must support his own weight on his feet. Not feet AND hands.

 

[Taff]

The player must support his own weight on his feet. Not feet AND hands.

At a tackle fair enough, but not true if he's an onside (non participating) player at a ruck.

 

[ddjamo]

taff - do you consider a player onside that is in an american football down position (weight equally distributed between hands and feet, 4 point stance) with feet behind the offside line - but hands in front of it?

 

[didds]

ddjamo - as per post #2 in this thread presumably.. ?

didds

 

[Browner]

taff - do you consider a player onside that is in an american football down position (weight equally distributed between hands and feet, 4 point stance) with feet behind the offside line - but hands in front of it?

I don't.
The notion that you can have your tackling shoulders 1.5m nearer to the opposition than your feet (at the HMF) and be onside is born out of the marginal gains ideology of all defensive coaches. Law where written likely never considered the idea that players wouldn't be on their feet.

Get rid I say, enough space is being squeezed in the game.

 

[Taff]

taff - do you consider a player onside that is in an american football down position (weight equally distributed between hands and feet, 4 point stance) with feet behind the offside line - but hands in front of it?

Yes.

And I'm pretty sure I've seen an e-mail or clarification which says it's the feet that need to be behind the offside line and not the hands.

In practice, defenders won't have their weight "equally distributed" between hands and feet in a 4 point stance. They will be leaning forward and putting their hands on the floor as a balance.

 

[ChrisR]

I don't think a referee would have too much difficulty in requiring that a player in a 4-point (or 3-point) stance have the hands(s) behind the HMF.

I agree with others that say "Preserve the space".

 

[Taff]

I don't think a referee would have too much difficulty in requiring that a player in a 4-point (or 3-point) stance have the hands(s) behind the HMF.

So why do we see it happen at practically every game?

How many players have you ever seen penalised for it? I haven't seen one.

If it was just up to me, I would insist on no hands in front of the offside line - but I'm just going by what I've been told. I'll bring it up at the next meeting if you like.

 

[ChrisR]

Why isn't it enforced as you suggest? Don't know. I think it should be and wouldn't have a problem in making it stick. Ask SARefs for an opinion.

 

[menace]

Yes.

And I'm pretty sure I've seen an e-mail or clarification which says it's the feet that need to be behind the offside line and not the hands.

In practice, defenders won't have their weight "equally distributed" between hands and feet in a 4 point stance. They will be leaning forward and putting their hands on the floor as a balance.

I disgree, they're hands are taking some weight distribution so they can lean forward to get 'out of the blocks' quicker. IMO if you're in that position and touching the ground, then be Behind HMF, if you don't want to get pinged then simply lift your hands up off the ground.

 

[winchesterref]

Doesn't the law talk about "overstepping"? Which suggests the hands aren't factored into it.
I think they should be, but can't see where this is written.