Ball accidentally passed into touch

[ianh5979]

What is the correct decision when a ball is passed into touch? It was not done deliberately (as it was passed by a centre to his winger but went behind him and bounced into touch) and was not thrown forward. I gave the lineout but my assessor insisted I should have given the option of a scrum or lineout (I thought that only applied to a knock on going into touch).

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Why would the scrum be an option?

That doesn't make sense IMO.

As I understand (and apply) it, it's for KO and throw forwards that go into touch although I admit I forgot to apply it to a throw forward the only time it happened to me.:redface:

Huh - that's North Yorkshire for yer!

 

[OB..]

What is the correct decision when a ball is passed into touch? It was not done deliberately (as it was passed by a centre to his winger but went behind him and bounced into touch) and was not thrown forward. I gave the lineout but my assessor insisted I should have given the option of a scrum or lineout (I thought that only applied to a knock on going into touch).

I agree with you. I see no infringement, so no justification for a scrum. This does indeed sound like confusion over the current knock-on variation.

 

[Phil E]

Assessor gets it wrong (shock, horror)!

If the ball is badly passed and goes into touch, its just a lineout to the opposition.
Only a knock on, or froward pass into touch would result in a scrum/lineout option.

 

[Davet]

Did the assessor feel it was a forward pass?

If so was he confused over that vs knock-on?

As described you were correct.

 

[TheBFG]

Drives me mad when assesors get law wrong and then put it in writing.

In a de-brief we've all had cases when we need to check a technical issue, but there is no excuse to put it in the report. I'll be the first to put my hand up and say that i've been to my law book on returning to the changing room and if i've got it wrong (yes it happens) go and speak to the player after in the bar and admit to my mistake. So why don't assessors do it, afterall they have some say in our potential progression and for those of us that are keen to get as far as possible and are looking to improve, a cock up on their part can have an effect onna report!

That said i always thank every assessor for their time, it's always appreciated !

 

[Simon Thomas]

Somerset exchange coming up again in February - will we be seeing you again BFG ?

If you are, I have just the Match Observer you need - he has been there and done it all as a player and referee, but happy as Society Adviser (as was Chairman of Society, County Union, etc too). He would be a close rival to OB in law knowledge.

BTW - you previous feedback was acted upon, and acknowledged by the developing inexperienced Match Observer (who will progress over the next few seasons and I hope eventualkly make it to L5 at least).

I read 10-12 reports each week and 4 or 5 adviser feedback forms (why the rest of the refs don't bother escapes me) and always follow up on differences of opinion in law or even interpretation. I see very few law errors reported, which is a testament to KML1's excellent Society Training Meetings.

 

[OB..]

Drives me mad when assesors get law wrong and then put it in writing.

If we disagree on a point of law, I always check and get back to the referee with the law reference before writing his report. The last time this happened was the case of a knock-on into touch (before the current law), which I have quoted before.

4 or 5 adviser feedback forms (why the rest of the refs don't bother escapes me)

Our feedback forms are supposed to go to the referee as well as the SADO, and I have tended to assume referees don't think it wise to be critical (well, not on paper, anyway). Or just lazy.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Our feedback forms are supposed to go to the referee as well as the SADO, and I have tended to assume referees don't think it wise to be critical (well, not on paper, anyway). Or just lazy.

Standard RFU set up used by most Groups/Feds/Societies is that Adviser Report goes to referee (& referee coach) as draft for discussion [used at higher levels only].
Published version goes to Referee (& Coach) plus Grading Chair or Secretary (and then to other members of grading committee - weekly, monthly or one big chunk) for Grading decisions evidence. Also goes to SADO (Society Advisers Development Officer) - who is often but not always Chair of of Grading too. SADO is interested in standard of reports, is de-brief and are interpretations correct, referee ddevelopment needs (feed back to Traning & Development Officer) and potential.

Adviser feedback forms are sent by referee only to SADO and are never shown to Advisers - referee anonimity is protected. These are used by SADO to ensure high advising standards are maintained - pre-match contact, arrival in good time for comms etc, understanding of match shown, clear structured de-brief, and report reflects de-brief.

At Federation and Group level the Adviser Feedback form is mandatory for all referees to complete.

 

[OB..]

Adviser feedback forms are sent by referee only to SADO and are never shown to Advisers

That used to be the case, which seemed sensible to me, but it was subsequently changed. I have no idea why.

 

[Dickie E]

Drives me mad when assesors get law wrong and then put it in writing.

They should do what ours do:

Assessor: "Dickie, you awarded a lineout in the 34th minute after a pass went into touch. Are you happy you made the right call?"

Dickie: "Yes, all good"

Assessor: "Have a check of the good book and get back to me during the week to confirm"

See what they do? All remains on my shoulders.

 

[menace]

ha - speak for yourself...not always. Here's 2 examples from one of my reports (on one of the lowest senior grades in this parts)

1) His first decision at a lineout was incorrect. The ball travelled down the line and while the non offending side asked for a scrum he maintained "play on" was the correct decision. (I assume he meant down one line of players..not line-of-touch. but that was unclear. )
2) Line out only one receiver for Red throughout the game.

Even when seeking explanation as the what was wrong in law or what he meant...i had no response. left me saying :shrug: . Still to this day I have no idea what he meant on 2)?